The newest issue of the Official Nintendo Magazine sees Shigeru Miyamoto speak once again about gamers both casual and hardcore, with his belief that those of the former will eventually move on to the latter, with his very wife serving as an example.
"I think it's a natural transition. Everyone starts off as a light user but at some point many of them become hardcore gamers. My wife bought Brain Training about three years ago. In More Brain Training, you know how there is the Dr. Mario game? She became absolutely hooked and today she is much better than I am!"
And as to the distinction between the two?
"When I hear that kind of discussion, I wonder if there really is such a distinction.
There are many hardcore gamers playing with casual games and I believe casual gamers do get into hardcore Nintendo games too. I think one of Nintendo's missions is to destroy the barrier between the two and I believe Wii Music contributes that." -- Shigeru Miyamoto, to the Official Nintendo Magazine, via Nintendo Everything
I personally rolled my eyes at these suggestions. Casual gamers do not become hardcore gamers and there is a huge distinction between the two types. Sad to see that my all-time favorite game designer is becoming a PR bull**** artist. I certainly hope he doesn't believe what he's saying.
There's definitely a difference between the two camps, but I agree with him that people can cross back-and-forth between the two categories.
I think the problem is that Nintendo is only helping to increase the divide between the two camps by creating games specifically for casual gamers. What was a casual gamer back on the NES and SNES? Someone who played Mario every so often? Ok, then what was a hardcore gamer? Someone who played Super Mario every day, trying to collect everything? Someone who played Mario, and Castlevania, and Ninja Gaiden, and Final Fantasy? There were casual gamers that only played Final Fantasy every so often too.
The fact is, way back when, casual gamers were just people that played hardcore games less often, or less seriously. Hardcore gamers played more games, more seriously, more hours per week. There was no idea that some games were designed for one camp, and some games were designed for another.
So whereas years ago, the transition from casual to hardcore just meant stumbling across the game, franchise or genre that captured your imagination and playing the hell out of it (and then finding other games like it), Nintendo has created a bigger gap for these people to cross. Now if someone gets into games playing Wii Sports, they have to someone find their way out of the 'casual games' camp and pick up a copy of Madden or something, which is aimed directly at hardcore gamers.
Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft have no initiatives in place to help casual gamers across that gap, so they're basically stuck playing in their casual games pool until someone drags them kicking and screaming into the hardcore pool.
I agree with much of what you said Sascha but I'm also inclined to believe that there are at least two types of casual gamers nowadays. There are those who use Wii for games like Wii Sports and Carnival Games and then there are those that buy a 360 but play nothing more than Halo or Gears of War. The latter group is similar to those who bought a PS2 last generation just to play either Madden or GTA. That group is also much more likely to become more of a hardcore gamer that frequents gaming forums and spends hours a day playing, rather than the previous group who treats gaming as if it were a board game.
Location: I'm a block away from hell, not enough shots away from stray shells.
Posts: 1,255
Nintendo DS Friend Codes -
Sascha that was a good post! Casual gamers have always existed but there was no obvious distinction and no company was catering to them specifically until this gen.
I agree with Sascha on this. The divide now is, ironically making it harder to get into hardcore games. At least before people might have already had the game; now you're asking people to go from Wii Music to playing TTFAF on expert. Probably not happening!
His entire train of logic is that a casual gamer can get into a hardcore Nintendo title and like it. Why is that worth an eye roll exactly? His entire argument is summed up in one of his sentences: There are many hardcore gamers playing with casual games and I believe casual gamers do get into hardcore Nintendo games too.
This is factually true. Many of those casuals if they're exposed to what would be considered a 'hardcore Nintendo title' could likely get into them if they liked the taste they got. Is it so nuts to think someone who got Wii Sports with their system may suddenly trust the Nintendo brand itself (1st party) and may try something that is core and looks friendly like a Mario game, Wario Land/Ware, Mario Kart or Sluggers? I think they could.
I think the lot of you so far are just looking in terms of black and white and kind of picking on the guy for what he said. The entire argument was that a casual new player could get into a hardcore Nintendo game, and the potential is very much there. I will give the last few quoted sentences were dumb and a pitch with Wii Music as there's nothing any-core about that tragedy. But, the point he raised with his wife going from lame brain games to kicking his ass in Dr Mario is a nice showing someone can get hardcore from starting casual. I see the PS2 argument there and the Xbox one too, yah you got those who will only do Halo and Madden, but considering how much time they drop into those games they'd be seriously hardcore gamers on that style game. You don't have to waste 20%+ of your waking life hitting multiple genres and owning them to be hardcore.
Hell here's a fun example with Epic again. He always does claim that GoW owns him and he's like near the best. Let's pretend that you no longer have any other games other than a handful (say like 1-2 a years worth) and you put like 90% of your gaming time into GoW. With all that effort you'd be like god of GoW for sure online and off. Now...we got two ways to look at this. Are you a casual gamer now because you basically buy little and got damn good at one game? Or are you a hardcore gamer that'll kick the crap out of anyone in GoW because of the dedication? I think even these questions show the entire 'coreness' of a gamer argument is CRAP.
I'd say there is definitely casual gamers that cross into "hardcore games" and I think that Nintendo infact offers these bridge games like Kart and Galaxy. Is it all PR bull****? I mean maybe, but I've seen non-gamers (my parents and extended family) become casual gamers and those with more access to my console (gf etc) transition from casual into hardcore games. Before wii she never played a videogame, she started out on wiisports/warioware and moved onto Call of Duty and No More Heroes.
Hell here's a fun example with Epic again. He always does claim that GoW owns him and he's like near the best. Let's pretend that you no longer have any other games other than a handful (say like 1-2 a years worth) and you put like 90% of your gaming time into GoW. With all that effort you'd be like god of GoW for sure online and off. Now...we got two ways to look at this. Are you a casual gamer now because you basically buy little and got damn good at one game? Or are you a hardcore gamer that'll kick the crap out of anyone in GoW because of the dedication? I think even these questions show the entire 'coreness' of a gamer argument is CRAP.
Oh, I'm nowhere near the best but I'm a pretty good all around Gears player. I do agree with this point too and that is why in my second post I mentioned that there are two types of casual gamers this generation: Those who specifically focus on casual games and those who play hardcore games with casual habits.
The thing that made me roll my eyes about Miyamoto's comment is that I think he's lost sight of what a hardcore game is. I don't consider too many of Nintendo's IPs to be hardcore any longer. Not Animal Crossing, Not Mario Baseball, hell not even Mario really. When we think of hardcore games we're talking about most of the stuff on the 360. So looking at it in that perspective, yes it's insane to think of mom and dad shifting from Wii Fit to all night sessions of Bio-Shock, Assassin's Creed, or CoD4.
AC was never hard core, hated they started to use that stupid term to combat comments. I can't comment on the baseball one really as I've never bothered as I feared I'd get tired of it fast as it lacks the variety of mario golf. Mario Galaxy though is, especially if you go beyond the minimum to see the basic ending. Ultimately you're making my point though because he said clearly 'nintendo hard core games' and their IPs mostly are, and thsoe they see people jumping to after being motivated by wii sports and the like which is great. People like that slowly bend over time and may end up moving into a 'The Conduit' or a Halo game or something.
I think theres more than one type of casual, and more than one type of hardcore. Theres the Rachet and Clank PS2 casual gamer, and the Wii Fit casual gamer. Theres a gears or Halo or CoD player, and theres the same person who plays more than just those, comes online, debates, etc. Theres also the casual gamer, who likes to come online and debate too. Why? I dont know.
Miyamoto is out of touch. He thinks Dr. Mario and Galaxy are hardcore. They may get hard at later levels, but imo those are in-between games. *flashback to the the Galaxy commercials with a kid controlling mario, and mom pointing at the useless stars* roffle
=) Hi Erik. Pwn u'z in PDZ?
__________________
give me a second go, dont let me go alone, you saw me at the worst, you caught me falling first
Yes there were no obvious casual games back in day but there was no need. The Atari and the NES has one and two button controllers. I taught my dad how to play Super Mario Bros in less than half an hour. Tecmo Bowl could be picked up in a matter of minutes.
Most hardcore games of today aren't so easy to grasp for the uninitiated. I think some of us than have been gaming for years loss sight of how complex the games we pick up in no time are. I rarely ever even look at, let alone read, my instruction manuals.
Location: I'm a block away from hell, not enough shots away from stray shells.
Posts: 1,255
Nintendo DS Friend Codes -
^All valid points, but now even the most complex games have in game prompts and tutorials that have taken the place of manuals. Some games have entire intial levels devoted to "training". I think complexity has been addressed fairly well and most games have more accessibility then games of generations before.
I pointed this out long ago... but I think the 3D perspective (and controlling the camera or right analog stick) is more of a barrier to crossover gamers than anything else. New gamers all have trouble with the perspective and controlling two axis more than anything else when I watch them pick up the paddles.
Mouse Race
Helicopter
Disc Dash
Jason's Pong
UFO Shoot Out
Asteroids
Nut Nut
Plops
Yankee Go Home
Hook Line & Sinker
Mad Shark
Mumu
Hexxagon
Crazy Closet
Mini KickUps
Starcastle
Linear Mode
