Way I see it, if gay people want to get married and enter a world of misery, money worries and expensive divorce proceedings like the rest of us married people, I say let them.
Nice gesture by Apple but with only $100,000 being donated I wonder if it's just enough to get more people to buy their products. With the type of money they make I'd expect them to kick in a few million if they were that serious.
I'm against Prop 8, and I advise everybody else to stand against it too. The conservative attitude toward gay marriage is rubbish; nobody's forcing you to marry a guy, it doesn't affect your life one bit, and all it does is give people who don't have full rights for something they can't choose an even footing with everybody else. It's the same thing with abortion; if you don't want abortions then don't have any, but for crying out loud don't force people in different situations than yourself to conform to your narrow-minded point of view.
Meh, I'll just say it. If you support Prop 8 you are more or less a fascist. So there ya go.
^I'm not in favor of Prop 8 either, but it's not quite as simple as you say JGZ. Many parents who raised their kids a certain way or who were raised a certain way themselves are basically going to have to go back and say now "Oops, I was wrong about marriage and relationships or kissing boys and girls". And before anybody decides to reply to this in some smartass way (not you jgz) you had better have kids or I don't even want to hear it.
What??? How do personal morals play at all into justifying legally implementing those morals? Do Jewish parents have to go back on teaching their kids what is and isn't kosher just because it isn't coerced through proposition Jew?
^I'm not in favor of Prop 8 either, but it's not quite as simple as you say JGZ. Many parents who raised their kids a certain way or who were raised a certain way themselves are basically going to have to go back and say now "Oops, I was wrong about marriage and relationships or kissing boys and girls". And before anybody decides to reply to this in some smartass way (not you jgz) you had better have kids or I don't even want to hear it.
John, I don't need a kid to understand how the parenting mindset works and how it might challenge the idea of gay marriage, and for many parents that will happen, but that's still no excuse for forbidding people who love each other the right to marry. And besides, I think your scenario is extremely unimportant in the grand scheme of things. If you teach your kid that boys shouldn't kiss other boys, then you're at fault for indoctrinating your child with homophobia. If people are gonna have to say "oops, I was wrong about marriage", then I welcome that epiphany. Why should we deny gay people a simple right just to protect the old timer's mindset? Out of respect to your point of view, I just think that this reasoning behind supporting Prop 8 is just sweeping dirt under the rug; people need to acknowledge the fact that there are gay people and that many of them fall in love and therefore deserve the same matters of treatment regarding marriage as everybody else. So yes, I think it is as simple as I described. We've been through these things before: women's rights, minority rights... You'd think that America as a body has learned from an intolerant past to start embracing people who many deem "different" and do things different this time around.
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Last edited by Z.E.I.D.A.N; 10-24-2008 at 09:56 PM..
If you teach your kid that boys shouldn't kiss other boys, then you're at fault for indoctrinating your child with homophobia.
The thing is, it doesn't even matter! If you teach your children to hate black people, you're indoctrinating your children with racism, but what is most important is that the state doesn't enforce this same abhorrent position upon its populace.
The entire issue should be avoided, legalize civil unions, and then let the people sort out on a personal in their own realm level decide what the hell to go and call it. Marriage as a term is a religious based principle which causes people to get all hot and bothered by it, and to some traditionalist too. Why piss on anyone, legalize civil unions on gov't paper, and people can do whatever the f they want as they all get the same legal status without hosing anyone in the process. It's not PC lameness, it's not butt kissing, and it's not being stupid about it either to one side or the other.
And zeidan that crosses the line there I think picking on John there saying that if you tell your little boy that boys shouldn't kiss. A vast majority of people don't live that lifestyle, and little children don't need to be having crap complicated to them at that age causing confusion. He has a right to tell his kid that's not normal, but accepted in society without being tagged as a homophobic hater. It's not indoctrination, it's just reaffirming the greater social norm.
HGW that's true enough. San Francisco currently is just out of control across the board in going ahead and ok'n a lot of illegal activities, or just being so outspoken on stuff it pisses off the rest of the state and/or nation with it. Gavin Newsom is a true piece of crap that needs to be impeached for the greater good of that city as they did a hell of a lot better under the last one Willie Brown.
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