Third and final debate: Joe Plumber gets the tough questions answered.

Hottotty · 10-15-2008, 11:54 PM

So, making a new thread about the last debate seems unavoidable, so I'll go ahead.

While many already think this was Obama's strongest showing, I think the true winner here tonight was Joe Plumber, sitting around his kitchen table putting litmus papers on supreme court judges. Yay?

Lizzaroni · 10-15-2008, 11:59 PM

Joe the Plummer/Bob the Builder 2008!

Darc Requiem · 10-16-2008, 12:03 AM

I actually thought McCain had this debate in the bag until he brought up the Ayers nonsense.

Z.E.I.D.A.N · 10-16-2008, 12:26 AM

^ I agree. John McCain was doing a FANTASTIC job until the personal attacks topic came around, which gave Obama the chance to take offense again. From that point on, McCain couldn't recover.

So in other words, PHEW.

**MR EPIC** · 10-16-2008, 01:48 AM

Meh, it was the same old stuff as the first two debates so I tuned out after less than 30 minutes. There's only so much I can take of "earmarks", "pork barrels", and "fundamental differences".

**Lucas** · 10-16-2008, 05:26 AM

McCain was swinging until Bob brought up Ayers and McCain took the bait. Then Obama pulled a Clinton '91 on him. At that point, it was back to the stuttering and rapid blinking with recycling of talking points. He had that "deer in headlights" look at least three different times and had a hard time controlling his anger. He also flubbed up the abortion portion of the discussion completely. I heard him mock the "life of the mother" clause twice. That was the shut-down moment. Obama wins 3-for-3.

That's the end of it. Now we wait for the October/November surprise.

Hottotty · 10-16-2008, 07:49 AM

I am always curious where these euphemisms and colloquialisms come from. Let's catch them all! We got:

1. Pork barrels. Is there even such a thing as an actual pork barrel?
2. Joe the Plumber. This one's my favorite. Are plumbers typically who decide election results in America?
3. Sitting around your kitchen table. And yet, also in the living room watching the debate on tv. huh.
4. Mainstreet vs. Walstreet. Lamest. Tekken match. Evar.

I've forgotten so many. What have I missed?

Tanooki · 10-16-2008, 09:08 AM

I feel Obama didn't have this one and McCain pulled it out, not by a landslide at all, but he clearly hit on things that had value from policy to the personal issues of the attack ads conversation and shady ties. I think it really rang with Joe the Plumber as he clearly laid down Obama as a socialist with telling that guy he'd have to lose more and spread the wealth despite the fact it would hurt his business because spreading the wealth will help others too. I loved hearing McCain shove that stupid **** of 4more years of Bush crap down Obamas arrogant throat for once, and even when Obama tried a snide comeback from it, it just came off arrogant and narrowminded. Perhaps McCain had a point, he should have run four years ago with those tired lines (as it likely would have worked and in that period would have made accurately targetted sense.) I think liz has a point though with Joe the Plumber/Bob the Builder perhaps for not this time but 2012.

We know Joe was being honest and showed concern when Obama said that, so now the question is, what will Joe do? My guess is that he'll have to fire someone or reduce a few of the peoples hours to cover the losses under Obama so his business doesn't get hosed. Gee, sounds exactly like what Obama claims he doesn't want, more job loss and more financial struggling.

Totty I can give you an idea on that first one: The concept was coined long ago, not sure who started it (likely a reporter or the type) but basically projects that benefitted not the nation but the politician and his neck of the woods was considered as being a pig with taxpayer dollars, ie: pork. The term essentially was coined due to robber barons, crooked politicians giving them the money (graft) they wanted, and lots of useless bloated projects of the late 1800's and earlier 1900s.

Hottotty · 10-16-2008, 09:26 AM

Well, yeah. Obviously. We all know what the term is used for. I want to know why. The question, really, is what the hell is the pig doing in a barrel in the first place? In my brief life I've always known pigs to come served in blankets, not barrels. Is it a wine barrel, like a cask? Or is it like an open headed agitated barrel, like for paint? Is it a P930 Internation Standard drum, like for toxic goods? These are the questions at the root of the problem. Until I know, I won't even consider voting.

As for your critique of the debate itself, I gotta admit you surprise me yet again with your ... let's call it an "interpretation".

Darc Requiem · 10-16-2008, 09:32 AM

Both of them were being disingenuous on the Joe the Plumber scenario. If his business makes more than $250,000 he would pay more taxes under Obama's plan. However Obama's plan exempts small business from his health care provision.

McCain was right that the average healthcare plan is $5800, however his tax credit is not $5000 per person. Its $2500 per person and $5000 for couples and families. The average families plan is NOT $5800. Don't get me started on the fact that finding good individual health care coverage is an impossibility. You either get crappy coverage with a co-pay and limited doctor visits or adequate coverage with a deductible of at least $300. Unless your sickly an individual healthcare plan is a waste.

Tanooki · 10-16-2008, 10:54 AM

Yup on both, and yes healthcare sucks at this rate. I think one thing that should get looked into and no one wants to (lobbyists?) is the pricing. I am speaking of the costs to just get in the door, costs of equipment, costs of surgery equipment, and costs of drugs. I deep down believe all of them are grossly rigged, I'm talking like oil industry price of oil barrel vs gas price rigged. I get certain stuff probably does qualify, such as a living organ as they're rare, but when an ambulence visit uninsured will cost you like $1000 just for equipment, 2 guys in the thing, and gas to get there something ain't right. I'd smile if the gov't would grow a pair and nail the hospitals, transport, equipment, and doctors for their out of control pricing. The health insurance industry isn't to blame, they get hosed by those fools prices and have to raise rates or make varying levels of halfass coverage so people can get some support so they have to endlessly raise rates to cover that bs.

Smokey · 10-16-2008, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hottotty

Well, yeah. Obviously. We all know what the term is used for. I want to know why. The question, really, is what the hell is the pig doing in a barrel in the first place? In my brief life I've always known pigs to come served in blankets, not barrels. Is it a wine barrel, like a cask? Or is it like an open headed agitated barrel, like for paint? Is it a P930 Internation Standard drum, like for toxic goods? These are the questions at the root of the problem. Until I know, I won't even consider voting.

As for your critique of the debate itself, I gotta admit you surprise me yet again with your ... let's call it an "interpretation".

I think the first hurdle you have to overcome in voting is the matter of citizenship.

Considering that I got home about half an hour after the debate started, I decided not to bother. I figured it was gonna be the same old rigmarole in a new shade of blah. Looks like I wasn't far off.

**Lucas** · 10-17-2008, 12:59 AM

It is of my opinion that David Letterman has more integrity than the entirety of the American news media. Anybody else see the McCain drilling tonight?

Lizzaroni · 10-17-2008, 01:13 AM

It's the role of The Jester. Stewart, Colbert, Letterman, etc all have the ability to go further than any other 'responsible' news caster precisely because their role is not cast in a serious light.

see: that Shakespeare fella'.

Hottotty · 10-17-2008, 08:16 AM

^ Not unlike this very thread, when you think about it.