The Obama and McCain campaigns have agreed to an unusual free-flowing format for the three televised presidential debates, which begin Friday, but the McCain camp fought for and won a much more structured approach for the questioning at the vice-presidential debate, advisers to both campaigns said Saturday.
At the insistence of the McCain campaign, the Oct. 2 debate between the Republican nominee for vice president, Gov. Sarah Palin, and her Democratic rival, Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr., will have shorter question-and-answer segments than those for the presidential nominees, the advisers said. There will also be much less opportunity for free-wheeling, direct exchanges between the running mates.
McCain advisers said they had been concerned that a loose format could leave Ms. Palin, a relatively inexperienced debater, at a disadvantage and largely on the defensive.
The wrangling was chiefly between the McCain-Palin camp and the nonpartisan Commission on Presidential Debates, which is sponsoring the forums.
Commission members wanted a relaxed format that included time for unpredictable questioning and challenges between the two vice-presidential candidates. On Wednesday, the commission unanimously rejected a proposal sought by advisers to Ms. Palin and Senator John McCain of Arizona, the Republican presidential nominee, to have the moderator ask questions and the candidates answer, with no time for unfettered exchanges. Advisers to Mr. Biden say they were comfortable with either format.
Both campaigns see the four debates as pivotal moments in a presidential race that is not only extraordinarily close but also drawing intense interest from voters; roughly 40 million viewers watched the major speeches at the two parties’ conventions. The upheaval in the financial markets has recast the race in recent days, moreover, which both sides believe will only heighten attention for the debates.
A commission member said that the new agreement on the vice-presidential debate was reached late Saturday morning. It calls for shorter blocks of candidate statements and open discussion than at the presidential debates.
McCain advisers said they were only somewhat concerned about Ms. Palin’s debating skills compared with those of Mr. Biden, who has served six terms in the Senate, or about his chances of tripping her up. Instead, they say, they wanted Ms. Palin to have opportunities to present Mr. McCain’s positions, rather than spending time talking about her experience or playing defense.
While the debates between presidential nominees are traditionally the main events in the fall election season, the public interest in Ms. Palin has proved extraordinary, and a large audience is expected for her national debate debut.
Indeed, both the McCain and Obama campaigns have similar concerns about the vice-presidential matchup in St. Louis: that Ms. Palin, of Alaska, as a new player in national politics, or Mr. Biden, of Delaware, as a loquacious and gaffe-prone speaker, could commit a momentum-changing misstep in their debate.
The negotiations for the three 90-minute debates between the men at the top of the tickets were largely free of brinksmanship. Neither side threatened to pull out, and concerns about camera angles and stagecraft were minor.
Senator Barack Obama of Illinois, the Democratic nominee for president, and Mr. McCain did not intercede personally to settle any disputes. They agreed to one substantive change to the format originally proposed by the debate commission, giving them two minutes apiece to make a statement at the beginning of each segment on a new topic.
Mr. Obama successfully sought to flip the proposed topics for the first and third debates, so foreign policy is now coming first and economic and other domestic issues come last. There is a second debate, in the format of a town hall meeting, in which the candidates will sit on director’s chairs and take questions from the audience and Internet users on any topic.
The debate commission had proposed that the first debate be on economic issues and the third on foreign policy — in part, people involved in the process said, because the first debate is usually the most watched, and many voters rank the economy as their top concern.
Mr. Obama wanted foreign policy first to show viewers that he could provide depth, strength and intelligence on those issues, his advisers said, given that Mr. McCain consistently wins higher ratings in opinion polls as a potential commander in chief.
Mr. Obama wanted domestic issues to come last; advisers said that they believed even before the start of the financial crisis that the election was most likely to turn on the state of the economy and that he wanted the final televised exchange to focus on those concerns. He has argued that Mr. McCain would continue the economic policies of President Bush.
Mr. McCain also wanted foreign policy topics to come first in the debates, his aides said, in the hope of capitalizing on his positive reputation on national security issues across party lines.
He wanted limits on the original format for the first and third debates, which had been nine topics with nine minutes of free-flowing debate on each one. Mr. Obama went along, though his aides did insist that at least several minutes of open-ended debate occur in each block of questioning, because they believe he does well in that format.
Now the candidates will be asked a question, each will give an answer of two minutes or less, and then they will mix it up for five additional minutes before moving on to the next question in the same format.
Obama aides also agreed to use lecterns at the first event, which Mr. McCain preferred; at the third debate, the two men will be seated at a round table, in the 10 o’clock and 2 o’clock positions, with the moderator at 6 o’clock.
McCain aides said that they were conscious of the fact that Mr. McCain has a prominent scar on one side of his face, and that they could not predict how prominent it would appear with the camera angles, lighting and make-up.
The debate formats were negotiated by Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina, representing the McCain campaign, and Representative Rahm Emanuel, Democrat of Illinois, for the Obama camp. A handful of aides from both camps were also involved, hammering out issues between themselves and then holding conference calls with members of the commission to reach final agreements, people involved in the process said.
Mr. Obama plans to begin debate camp on Tuesday with a tight circle of advisers at a site in the Tampa Bay area of Florida, his aides say, with a prominent Democratic lawyer, Greg Craig, playing the part of Mr. McCain in mock debates.
The Obama campaign has been studying Mr. McCain’s debate performances from the Republican primary as well as in his 2000 race for president. Each debate has been rated and scored, with briefing points and highlights sent to Mr. Obama.
Mr. Obama’s advisers have been studying in particular Mr. McCain’s temperament and mood and looking for potential flash points of anger.
Mr. McCain, his advisers say, has yet to spend much time watching the dozens of primary debate performances of Mr. Obama over the last two years. But they said that a small staff of aides had been reviewing them and that Mr. McCain would see some highlights next week.
McCain aides refused to say when his debate camp would be or where, or who was playing Mr. Obama or Mr. Biden. (Gov. Jennifer M. Granholm, Democrat of Michigan, is playing Ms. Palin for Mr. Biden’s preparations.)
Mr. Obama plans to sequester himself and a few advisers at his debate camp. The attendance is limited to a small group of foreign policy advisers, each rotating in for separate sessions with Mr. Obama and Mr. Craig.
The choice of Florida, particularly the politically critical region near Tampa, was selected with a dual purpose in mind. While Mr. Obama will have few public events from Tuesday through Friday, aides said, his presence could draw considerable local news media attention in a state where he hopes to fiercely challenge Mr. McCain.
While the intense portion of debate training begins on Tuesday, Mr. Obama has been preparing for weeks, in part by drawing upon his experience debating Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York in the Democratic primaries. His aides have been studying those debate performances to address one of his biggest shortcomings: his ability to deliver a tight answer. Already, his campaign is trying to diminish expectations for Mr. Obama’s performance.
“Despite the fact that we got the chance to do this a lot during the primaries, these debates are not by any stretch of the imagination his strong suit,” said Robert Gibbs, a senior strategist to Mr. Obama. “He likes to talk about a problem, give some examples that addresses some solutions and oftentimes that doesn’t fit into the moderator’s allotted time.”
The campaigns had no say over the choice of moderators — Jim Lehrer of PBS, Tom Brokaw of NBC and Bob Schieffer of CBS for the presidential debates, and Gwen Ifill of PBS for the vice-presidential debate.
“Everything matters and issues can always come up, such as the size of podiums — like for Carter and Ford in 1976 — to the timer lights if the candidate doesn’t like them,” said Tad Devine, a Democratic strategist who advised Al Gore in 2000 and John Kerry in 2004. “There hasn’t really been a ‘debate about the debates’ this year, but that can change in a minute.”
just...lawl
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Originally Posted by Lizzaroni
I'm not disregarding prostate cancer, but if given a choice for myself, I would obviously choose it because I do not have a prostate.
Sounds like they're going to great lengths to protect Palin and her lack of experience. That doesn't really do anybody any good and I'm sure when it comes down to McCain vs Obamba, Obama's lack of experience will definitely come into play. Hmmmmmm.
I can't believe you couldn't highlight the important parts. I had to read that WHOLE THING, Max. THE WHOLE THING. Not cool.
Seriously, I had no idea the contestants in the gameshow have such diva mentalities. Publicly, no less. I always thought they were all like George Bush, smile and be stupid on camera, then when you think no one's looking you're the biggest prick of all time.
I feel bad for Palin, though. She's about to have a really hard four years if McCain wins. An even harder four years if he lives through it.
McCain can't even sell his own speeches. They wanted that debate structure changed so that it will be easier for Palin to recite her pre-programmed responses and written jabs and so that Biden can more easily be pinned as a sexist jerk so all the women voters will go for the "poor soccer mom". Whatever. The VP debate isn't really all that important anyway.
As for the McCain/Obama debate, I've always expected for a while now that Obama would crush him, but I suspected McCain would want a more scripted debate. He's not as good of a speaker, doesn't improvise well, and stutters like no tomorrow. Obama is slow, but thoughtful in what he says (and says "uh" waaaay too much). The slowness may hurt him some in getting out some quick jabs, but I overall expect McCain to get crushed in the debate, especially if this is going to be more of a free-for-all style (aka, a real debate).
Smart move on their part since Biden is damn good when he gets going, and she's nowhere near as skilled which could make her look awful. It should be interesting seeing how that one plays out since both will get time to make their piece of the action out there to the people who care to watch.
Epic obviously they're going to try and keep her from a situation where Biden can mow her down, but really unless you mean debate inexperience, I think her and Obama are on fairly equal ground otherwise as far as career history so it would have been fairly hypocritical to have that brought up by Biden as an attack point.
I got to give credit to the McCain camp finally getting the great evader Obama into a town hall like non-structured free flowing of ideas debates. McCain has been on him for months to tour around in a town hall format and each time McCain showed up Obama didn't after talking about how he'd love to do that. Finally we can get it on with some debating finally and in a format where McCain is equally as comfortable as Obama knocking down any general speaking advantages hopefully. I'd love to see what pops up between the two on equal footing.
I find it ironic that the brave, patriotic leaders who are willing to face down the rest of the world militarily are afraid to face unprepped questions from the politically interested public of their own country. It's no wonder; when you allow the mythological world they inhabit to come into direct contact with reality the enchantment fades and looks rather foolish. I mean, we all know, Putin, Ahmedinijad, and everyone else we may have to have tense talks with always agree to structured & formatted debates beforehand. The lack of ability of McSame and Governer Mooseknuckle to think on their feet has got to be a deciding factor at some point.
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Originally Posted by Lizzaroni
I'm not disregarding prostate cancer, but if given a choice for myself, I would obviously choose it because I do not have a prostate.
Well I suppose you could go with the Moses like large talk game of the Obamessiah who despite being new on the scene can part the seas and just wave some tablets and make them all go away too right? It's a shame the Obamessiah won't have an open discussion with someone where a teleprompter or rehearsed speech can't be used when asked for months to do so, but yah perhaps having a teleprompter in a hot discussion with the crazies of the world will make everything alright in the end.
Smart move on their part since Biden is damn good when he gets going, and she's nowhere near as skilled which could make her look awful. It should be interesting seeing how that one plays out since both will get time to make their piece of the action out there to the people who care to watch.
Epic obviously they're going to try and keep her from a situation where Biden can mow her down, but really unless you mean debate inexperience, I think her and Obama are on fairly equal ground otherwise as far as career history so it would have been fairly hypocritical to have that brought up by Biden as an attack point.
If you want to compare their inexperience solely with their resumes, then it's comparable. However, if you're comparing their inexperience as far as expertise goes, then no there's no comparison. Unlike Sarah Palin, Barack Obama is actually knowledgeable. This is just another example of the Republican party keeping Palin sheltered and prepped to keep the public fooled until election day. And it sucks that viewers won't actually get to see a real debate because Joe Biden actually has exceptional knowledge but will have to dumb himself down to play what looks to be a back and forth sound-bite match. The only thing sadder than seeing dumb candidates on an American ballot is seeing genuinely smart people having to dumb themselves down so Joe Six pack can get the message.
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I got to give credit to the McCain camp finally getting the great evader Obama into a town hall like non-structured free flowing of ideas debates. McCain has been on him for months to tour around in a town hall format and each time McCain showed up Obama didn't after talking about how he'd love to do that. Finally we can get it on with some debating finally and in a format where McCain is equally as comfortable as Obama knocking down any general speaking advantages hopefully. I'd love to see what pops up between the two on equal footing.
Pretty sure Obama declined because McCain town hall meetings usually play out like this:
"My friends we need to cut spending my friends and my friends we have an economy that is fundamentally strong my friends but you know what my friends the fundamentals of the economy are workers like you, who are my friends. My friends the administration's bailout is not something I support my friends my friends, change is coming my friends, change is my friends. Friends!"
I guess Obama would rather meet McCain at more formal debates than having a nationwide pander-fest, because that's a match Barack just can't win.. my friend.
I particularly love how Jeff perpetuates the 'obamassiah' smear tactic that the Republican base has come to embrace. However, the Republicans have repeatedly shown that they have absolutely no grasp on reality when it comes to what they can realistically achieve and how difficult it will be to achieve it. I believe this is in part due to their collective US messianic complex, whereby they believe that America is uniquely blessed by God and uniquely morally superior to other nations. This absurd sense of divinely inspired overconfidence is what led them to blunder into Iraq, and I think it bodes very poorly for prudence of action in future. Only the Republicans would decry putting your hope in someone who promises to fix government corruption as having a "Messiah" complex, when we have an idiot in the White House right now with a literal Messiah complex and thinks the war he's waging is endorsed by God.
Actually, it's not ironic, it's projection resulting from a dissociation complex.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizzaroni
I'm not disregarding prostate cancer, but if given a choice for myself, I would obviously choose it because I do not have a prostate.
^ It's the war room so what the hell: From outside the country, sometimes all of you look that way.
Democrats are self-assured and arrogant because surely any right thinking, logical animal would agree with them. And if you don't, you are by default illogical or unthinking. (That's you, by the way!)
Republicans are self-assured and arrogant because surely any moral, God loving animal would agree with them. And if you don't, you are by default immoral and God hating. (That one's Jeff. See how easy it is! It's like the government does all the work for me!)
For the record, I find the binary offensively arbitrary.
Such simplistic self-identity is always going to be the symptom of overcooked nationalistic pride, and everyone in America seems to suffer from it.
But we all do. The same is happening, though more politely, in Canada. France suffers from it. Spain, England and Japan are maybe even worse. But I digress. It does tend to look far more severe and exaggerated to almost cartoon proportions in America. And it is especially curious considering it's a country founded by revolution and defined by its complex social diversity and a desire for independence. Now everyone gets spoon fed on inane black-or-white issues. I don't know why you're not all more offended by being so pandered to by both parties.
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