Some people would view me as an elitist, but the core reason I argue about games is because its annoying to see people distort the quality of games. Remove your personal definition of fun, and grade games based on their quality. Its okay to enjoy any game you want, but understand some games are on a higher level than others. Thats just the way it is, just like anything else, such as Movies, Music, Art, Hardware, Cars, and almost everything else in life. Gamers tend to fight about their favourites so much because they become attached to specific series, and titles, and they often ignore the fact that while you may have enjoyed a game it might just not be as good as another game in terms of visuals, controls, gameplay, sound, and tilt/replay value, etc.
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However, if you as a gamer enjoy these so-called 'lower quality' games, then wouldn't ratings on graphics, sound, gameplay, and tilt be worth nothing to you?
Edit: This is also ultimately why review numbers mean nothing to me. Final Fantasy games may look and sound good, but they've never been able to pull me in like some simple Nippon Ichi RPGs.
"Value" is subjective. No matter how much people want their idea of value to be the standard.
However, if you as a gamer enjoy these so-called 'lower quality' games, then wouldn't ratings on graphics, sound, gameplay, and tilt be worth nothing to you?
Edit: This is also ultimately why review numbers mean nothing to me. Final Fantasy games may look and sound good, but they've never been able to pull me in like some simple Nippon Ichi RPGs.
"Value" is subjective. No matter how much people want their idea of value to be the standard.
Some parts of the current review process are subjective, but other things arent as much. You may not like a specific sound, but if youre going to be reviewing for a site that people are influenced by then you need to be able to understand that a sound you dont like might still be quality. Same goes for visuals, and gameplay.
If youre enjoying your brain age, by all means, continue to enjoy it and ignore the reviews, but if you actually care about gaming as a whole I think you need to stress to developers that they should be trying to up the quality and not take the easy way out.
Imagine your Nipon Ichi, just as good as it is now, but better in every category. The only problem that could arise is if to do that it needs to be on a more powerful system. If the developer doesnt want to put it there, then understand that when judged they may be marked down. I know that some gamers feel that because they own a cheaper less powerful system that means everyone should give them a break and dish out the same high score other games get and not critisize the game son that system if they dont compare. If ten years from now someone is making games that look and run like current games when technology allows for much better, sorry but youre being lazy.
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Some parts of the current review process are subjective, but other things arent as much. You may not like a specific sound, but if youre going to be reviewing for a site that people are influenced by then you need to be able to understand that a sound you dont like might still be quality. Same goes for visuals, and gameplay.
If youre enjoying your brain age, by all means, continue to enjoy it and ignore the reviews, but if you actually care about gaming as a whole I think you need to stress to developers that they should be trying to up the quality and not take the easy way out.
Imagine your Nipon Ichi, just as good as it is now, but better in every category. The only problem that could arise is if to do that it needs to be on a more powerful system. If the developer doesnt want to put it there, then understand that when judged they may be marked down. I know that some gamers feel that because they own a cheaper less powerful system that means everyone should give them a break and dish out the same high score other games get and not critisize the game son that system if they dont compare. If ten years from now someone is making games that look and run like current games when technology allows for much better, sorry but youre being lazy.
I see where you're coming from, and I have no problem stating that a certain game looks/plays better than another, but it's still possible to not enjoy a great game regardless.
I've never liked Metal Gear games for example. I recognize why they're loved and great, but I can't stand them.
Nippon Ichi IS on the most powerful system. Releasing 2D games at that (Disgaea 3... okay 2.5D?). Their art style, quirky humor, and depth make the games. Not the graphics (which art style falls under) or sound (which is usually good but not great).
Sure they could make HD sprites or something, but to put those games into a super 3D Eternal Sonata-esque style wouldn't work.
Some games don't need to look/sound better to be amazing. In some cases it can really help, but a better looking Mario isn't going to change the game any.
I see where you're coming from, and I have no problem stating that a certain game looks/plays better than another, but it's still possible to not enjoy a great game regardless.
I've never liked Metal Gear games for example. I recognize why they're loved and great, but I can't stand them.
Nippon Ichi IS on the most powerful system. Releasing 2D games at that (Disgaea 3... okay 2.5D?). Their art style, quirky humor, and depth make the games. Not the graphics (which art style falls under) or sound (which is usually good but not great).
Sure they could make HD sprites or something, but to put those games into a super 3D Eternal Sonata-esque style wouldn't work.
Some games don't need to look/sound better to be amazing. In some cases it can really help, but a better looking Mario isn't going to change the game any.
Thats alright, but if a game isnt as visually impressive or the sounds are basic by choice then i think theres only so high they can score. Its upto the reviewer though to stress that the visuals and or sound arent what make the game special without doing the really stupid:
This is true. Sadly, when you guys hear me refer to a Wii game I always end it up with "For a Wii game it's damn good". I shouldn't have to say that but the fact is that if I were to compare said game to something on the 360 or PS3 nine times out of ten it just doesn't stack up. As Coral says, enjoy what you want (even CTYD) but don't even try to compare it to the awesome experience it was on the XBOX 360. It's not elitism to like nice graphics or online play, as these things have been around on consoles for a while now. But some get defensive when these issues are brought up, mainly Nintendo fans who feel compelled to make excuses about the company living in the dark ages.
That's the point I was trying to make about Chocobo's Dungeon and more specifically why ended up giving up on it. In the beginning I was really jazzed about it being one of the deepest and best games on the Wii, but after time set in I realized that this wasn't the same level of game as a Lost Odyssey, a Final Fantasy, or a Dragon Quest and that in a sense I was lowering my standard. I don't feel that I should have to lower my standard with Wii games but all to often I find myself having to do so in order to convince myself that it's a worthwhile effort.
Thats alright, but if a game isnt as visually impressive or the sounds are basic by choice then i think theres only so high they can score. Its upto the reviewer though to stress that the visuals and or sound arent what make the game special without doing the really stupid:
That's exactly why if a reviewer uses numbers in a review they should only do an all encompassing number grade for the game.
Movie reviewers don't rate the quality of acting, cinematography, script, etc and then take the average. They consider all things and give one solid score/recommendation.
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I've said this numerous times but review scores give cause to the enthusiasts. If the reviewing portion of the game industry would forgo the summary score at the end of reviews, we may end up with more quality reviews and enthusiasts may have less "proof" to back up their positions.
In the end most people whether they claim to like reviews or not end up citing some review score in their argument for or against a game. That really needs to stop especially given that most gamers aren't even reading the whole reviews anymore.
Personally I think the "elitists" mostly exist in the older tech segment of gaming more often than not. Even around these boards I've seen that group do more lashing out at people that own newer or multiple units. But EVERYONE can get a bit overly sensitive about their machines.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coral
Thats alright, but if a game isnt as visually impressive or the sounds are basic by choice then i think theres only so high they can score. Its upto the reviewer though to stress that the visuals and or sound arent what make the game special without doing the really stupid:
Coral, just because a game has better visuals and better sound doesn't make it a better game than another. A game with visuals that satisfy the bare minimum of a 360's horsepower but has an incredibly in-depth storyline will beat out a visually mind-blowing yet shallow game.
Thats alright, but if a game isnt as visually impressive or the sounds are basic by choice then i think theres only so high they can score. Its upto the reviewer though to stress that the visuals and or sound arent what make the game special without doing the really stupid:
Agreed, but you also have to take into account that visuals need to be appropriate to the game. For example, puzzle games require functional graphics; while polish and aesthetic is very important, gratuitous processing power shouldn't be poured into the presentation for its own sake.
I agree that gaming graphics should be the best that they can be given current technology, but that doesn't necessarily mean devoting as much processing to visuals as possible. 'The best that they can be' means the most thoughtful expenditure of technological and artistic resources possible.
Im not weighing Visuals or Sound over any of the other areas. But if theyre going to be used in a review, unless you specify weigh them equally.
And yes, i understand. A game on PS3 that compared to most on the PS3 looks like meh, but looks better than the best on N64 shouldnt be getting anything over a 6 in the visuals department.
Lets not forget that visuals isnt just one frame, but also frames per second, smooth loading, no pop in, proper use of styles.
Game reviewers could stop using numbers, but I think wed start seeing reviews becoming even more opinionated, and personally I dont care what Mr. so and so thinks of the game. Just tell me, is it a well made game, are their obvious flaws, okay thanks, Ill go try it out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokey
Coral, just because a game has better visuals and better sound doesn't make it a better game than another. A game with visuals that satisfy the bare minimum of a 360's horsepower but has an incredibly in-depth storyline will beat out a visually mind-blowing yet shallow game.
I agree 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAX
I get annoyed with gamers who base their argument on subjective things like scores/ratings a game gets.
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