Hockey or Basketball?

[Smokey]

I'm not asking which you prefer. No, in the true spirit of the War Room, I'm asking you which of these winter sports is inherently better? The obvious answer is hockey, as it takes infinitely more skill to master and to play. It's also a hell of a lot more entertaining, 'cause there is actually some defense mixed into the game, as opposed to basketball where a goal is scored every ten seconds. And what can beat a sport where fighting won't result in legal action? Not even rugby can claim that.

Before we come to the inevitable conclusion of hockey's glorious victory, let's see some fire from you basketball people before you concede.:D

[HGW XX/7]

You ask which one of these "Winter Sports" is better.

Obviously hockey, because basketball isn't a winter sport. I mean, c'mon. They play it during the SUMMER Olympics.

That said, the olympics suck, so they shouldn't be a guide or anything.

That, and hockey is on ice. That's more winter than a lacquered wood floor.

[Smokey]

You ask which one of these "Winter Sports" is better.

Obviously hockey, because basketball isn't a winter sport. I mean, c'mon. They play it during the SUMMER Olympics.

That said, the olympics suck, so they shouldn't be a guide or anything.

That, and hockey is on ice. That's more winter than a lacquered wood floor.

Well, I say winter sport because that's when the NBA season is. Like you said, the Olympics suck. Why would I base anything off of that?

And tedious though it may be to belabor the point, why do you know hockey is superior to basketball?

[Tanooki]

Yah got to give it to hockey. The only sport where fighting is silently encouraged. ;) It takes a hell of a lot of skill, patience and talent to be able to skate as they do while doing all that stick and puck work, and the goalie...ugh hell of a time there. A good idea here, which game do you see done normally as a casual sport to relax...not hockey.

[Smokey]

A good idea here, which game do you see done normally as a casual sport to relax...not hockey.

Ah, but does that make it better? I say NAY, sir, NAY!

In all seriousness, basketball is more accessible since it requires less stuff, specifically it does not need a special floor, just something hard. It'd be hella hard to arrange a pick-up game of ice hockey in these here parts. Field hockey, on the other hand...but that's beside the point.

The point being, in all seriousness, hockey still whips basketball's bitch ass.:P

[Lizzaroni]

Hm, it's not as easy a decision as far as I'm concerned -- and before anybody makes any girl jokes, I say this in spite of the fact that hockey players are almost always hotter than basketball players. It's a tough loyalty to break.

I never played hockey, but I did play basketball. What I like about both sports is that, in my opinion, a person who knows very little about either sport can sit down and enjoy it. Sports like baseball and football require a bit more of a personal and time investment in the sport (ie. familiarity with rules/penalties/flags.) I could be wrong on this, but I've found it far easier to "drag" friends to Amerks games than 'most other sports. And, just for the record, I'd put lacrosse and soccer in this category too. They're all very accessible for spectators, though this is very subjective and probably the most debatable point here.

Now, accessibility for athletes is entirely different. The reason why I like basketball so much is that there is much more opportunity to play. Unless you're playing balls-out-stick-and-puck hockey, you need to purchase gear, skates, nets, find ice, etc. Basketball essentially requires a basket, a ball, and firm ground. In America, and I think even in most countries where hockey dominates (winkwink), you're more likely to find an easy access basketball court for a quick one-on-one than a hockey rink. Even in the barest of conditions, I'd take a makeshift basket and court over, say, a makeshift ice rink (the latter strikes me not only as harder to create but probably very unsafe to boot. Oh well.) In this sense, I'd consider basketball more democratic. As for playing alone, I've never played hockey so I can't comment on how fun it is to practice by yourself, but I can say that I enjoyed shooting hoops on my own if no one else was around.

Professionally, I feel hockey wins hands down. Basketball's competitiveness has been so diluted by a virtually offense-only strategy and eight billion (rough estimate) games a season, essentially causing players to perform like **** until the playoffs light a fire under their ass. Also, I really hate the showboating in basketball. I'm thoroughly impressed by dunking but when it dominates the game, it gets boring. Similarly -- and this might be me being a sports snob -- basketball culture as of late has me unimpressed. It hasn't quite hit NFL perversion yet, but with the exception of a few problem children, the NHL appears to have itself under far more control.

So, I guess my vote is going to hockey, although if you asked me personally which sport I'd rather spend eternity playing, I can say without a doubt I'd choose basketball.

[Z.E.I.D.A.N]

I like basketball more, but I think hockey's "inherently better" because it's too hardcore for normal men.

[Lizzaroni]

Gaelic football is too hardcore for normal men. They are gods.

[MR EPIC]

Basketball, because having the privilege to watch Michael Jordan was infinitely more historical and entertaining than watching either Wayne Gretzky or Mario Lemiux. Neither of them were able to make non-hockey fans fans of the sport for a period of time. But like only Tiger Woods was able to do with golf, Michael made basketball fans out of those who couldn't have cared less about the sport previously.

[Luis Sera]

alright hockey wins thread over bros

[prime_timer]

alright hockey wins thread over bros

QFMFT.

[Monkeylord]

Curling

[HGW XX/7]

Curling

Sorry to derail your joke, but I honestly prefer curling over basketball. There's more potential for awesome and violence (especially in a casual setting where you're most likely drinking).

[Smokey]

I could be wrong on this, but I've found it far easier to "drag" friends to Amerks games than 'most other sports.

Even this season?

Basketball, because having the privilege to watch Michael Jordan was infinitely more historical and entertaining than watching either Wayne Gretzky or Mario Lemiux. Neither of them were able to make non-hockey fans fans of the sport for a period of time. But like only Tiger Woods was able to do with golf, Michael made basketball fans out of those who couldn't have cared less about the sport previously.

I smell BS.

1) Michael Jordan isn't that historical a figure. His greatness is in danger of being overshadowed by several other contemporary players. Gretzky is in no such position. There's a reason why he's called The Great One.
2) One great player doesn't make a sport better than another. Even if it did, you named two great figures from hockey and only one from basketball. Two of a kind beats one, my friend.
3) Gretzky has his own videogame. Where's Jordan's?:P

[HGW XX/7]

Even this season?



I smell BS.

1) Michael Jordan isn't that historical a figure. His greatness is in danger of being overshadowed by several other contemporary players. Gretzky is in no such position. There's a reason why he's called The Great One.
2) One great player doesn't make a sport better than another. Even if it did, you named two great figures from hockey and only one from basketball. Two of a kind beats one, my friend.
3) Gretzky has his own videogame. Where's Jordan's?:P

He shared that one with Bird. Also, there probably was a Space Jam game of some kind.

[Monkeylord]

I got this one (surprising, I know)

1) Michael Jordan isn't that historical a figure. His greatness is in danger of being overshadowed by several other contemporary players. Gretzky is in no such position. There's a reason why he's called The Great One.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/14/Space_jam.jpg

Greatness confirmed

3) Gretzky has his own videogame. Where's Jordan's?:P

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/67/MjordanSNES_boxart.jpg

Game confirmed

[HGW XX/7]

I got this one (surprising, I know)



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/14/Space_jam.jpg

Greatness confirmed



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/67/MjordanSNES_boxart.jpg

Game confirmed

Beat you to it~

[Monkeylord]

Beat you to it~

Mine was better :P

[HGW XX/7]

Mine was better :P

Mine mentioned Larry Bird as well, so it wins. Pictures are for insecure people.

[Smokey]

I got this one (surprising, I know)



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/14/Space_jam.jpg

Gimmick confirmed

Fixed.:P

Besides, Space Jam sucked.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/67/MjordanSNES_boxart.jpg

Game confirmed

One game doesn't beat several. Strength in numbers, yo.

[HGW XX/7]

Ooh. Another reason hockey's superior:

There isn't and never will be a basketball player whose doughnut shop takes over an entire nation.

[Smokey]

Haha, that's the damn truth.

[Lizzaroni]

Note: athletes' success don't illustrate the inherent superiority of the sport, only themselves.

Smokey: Yes, even this season. I'm surprised you even follow -- where do you live again?

[MR EPIC]

The fact that we've discussed Michael Jordan (a basketball player) in an obviously Hockey focused thread for the better part of the past two pages tells me that I'm right and Basketball is the better sport. Also, Michael Jordan is the greatest athlete in the history of sports and there is no argument any of you can make against that. Furthermore, it's my opinion that some of you might be picking hockey to make up for the lack of manliness and toughness in your own lives. Hockey is a tough sport with tough fans, something that none of you strike me as at all. Not trying to be rude, just make an observation.

[Smokey]

Note: athletes' success don't illustrate the inherent superiority of the sport, only themselves.

Smokey: Yes, even this season. I'm surprised you even follow -- where do you live again?

North Carolina. Even so, I go to a hockey board, and Rochester comes up every now and again, mostly because of the terrible luck you guys have had, both in attendance and scores. I've heard you're doing better lately, though. Do you guys still have Brodeur?

The fact that we've discussed Michael Jordan (a basketball player) in an obviously Hockey focused thread for the better part of the past two pages tells me that I'm right and Basketball is the better sport.

Umm...read the title of this thread. It's hockey and basketball. One malcontent doesn't make a sport superior.

Also, Michael Jordan is the greatest athlete in the history of sports and there is no argument any of you can make against that.

Please, Lebron James is every inch the athlete Jordan is, as are several others. Jordan is no longer unique. Again, there aren't too many hockey players around called The Great One, and to my knowledge, Jordan has earned no such title.

Furthermore, it's my opinion that some of you might be picking hockey to make up for the lack of manliness and toughness in your own lives. Hockey is a tough sport with tough fans, something that none of you strike me as at all. Not trying to be rude, just make an observation.

...Excuse me? EXCUSE ME? I'm not a fan? Listen, pal, I've been going to Checkers games since before I could walk. I've been out of state to watch them play on a number of occasions. I am the most rabid fan you will see at those games. As a matter of fact, I went to one tonight and I screamed myself hoarse, and I do so on a regular basis. If you've walked into these boards with open eyes and a half-working brain, you would notice how often I've talked about my home team and involved I am with them. So don't ****ing walk in here and tell me to my bloody face that I'm not a fan. Check your ****ing facts before you open your mouth.

[chipotleattack]

I'm really surprised how many hockey fans there are on Kombo. I seriously only know two people in real life who care about hockey and that's only because they actually play for their college teams.

Basketball is loved by millions around the world. Reason? Because it's more accessible and more fun to play and watch. You can be 5'6" and make it in the NBA as long as you can do one thing really well (shoot, pass, defend). Hockey requires a large build and the ability to punch people in the face for the hell of it (Ron Artest could be a hockey player).

Michael Jordan is easily the best athlete ever. LeBron is pretty close..he's a freak of nature, but Jordan took basketball to a whole new level. The Showtime Lakers were great and entertaining to watch but Jordan's brilliance was amazing too. I don't even like him much as a person but I can't argue against his greatness.

Basketball takes skill, athleticism, mental and physical toughness. Hockey takes skill and a large body. Basketball requires you to be tough mentally as well as physically. Have you seen how clutch Jordan, Magic and Kobe were?

For me, basketball is the best sport because it's a team sport that requires precision and cooperation from everyone. You need to rotate and cover your teammates on defense, get in the right position for the pass, and make the smart choice to pass or shoot. You can go one on one if you have to (like Jordan) to win the game or you can pass it to a teammate and trust them to make the shot. I guess hockey concepts are similar to basketball but basketball is less limited. Crossovers, drop steps, fade aways, layups, dunks, three pointers, spin moves, between the legs, behind the back, off the backboard...you can do so many different things. In hockey, I just see them check each other into the walls, try to get the puck, clear it across the rink, chase it down, shoot, and do it all over again.

Anyway...that was my rant. I get defensive about basketball because I <3 it. I would give my left nut to protect it.

edit:

Smokey, Sidney Crosby or whatever his name is, has been mentioned as the next Great One...I think.

Jordan has earned the title of His Airness...also called the greatest of all time, or G.O.A.T. by some. To argue your point further, the reason there are LeBrons and Kobes around to be mentioned in the same breath as Jordan is because there are way more NBA players and way more basketball players around the world than there are hockey players. That just makes the likelihood of finding the next great one a lot greater.

[MR EPIC]

Lebron James is mentally weak and is not a winner like MJ was. MJ was the complete package as he had 1. Phenomenal talent 2. A tremendous work ethic 3. A will to win like no other. Lebron James isn't even in the conversation with MJ. As a matter of fact, Kobe is the only raw talent who even mimics MJ in the slightest and even then he's a distant distant second. He's spent his entire career trying to be MJ rather than the best player he could be personally.

[Smokey]

Basketball is loved by millions around the world. Reason? Because it's more accessible and more fun to play and watch. You can be 5'6" and make it in the NBA as long as you can do one thing really well (shoot, pass, defend). Hockey requires a large build and the ability to punch people in the face for the hell of it (Ron Artest could be a hockey player).

Michael Jordan is easily the best athlete ever. LeBron is pretty close..he's a freak of nature, but Jordan took basketball to a whole new level. The Showtime Lakers were great and entertaining to watch but Jordan's brilliance was amazing too. I don't even like him much as a person but I can't argue against his greatness.

True, basketball is more accessible, and you could argue that it's more fun to play, that's fairly subjective. To watch, however, it depends on what kind of person you are. If you're easily thrilled and entertained and another two/three points every ten seconds tickles your pickles, then basketball is for you. If you enjoy depth in your viewing, however, and enjoy actual honest-to-God defense in your sports, hockey is for you. Remember, hockey is loved by millions around the world. As a matter of fact, I can think of ten countries off the top of my head that eat and breathe hockey, probably more if I thought about it. Name five, no three, that do the same with basketball.

Basketball takes skill, athleticism, mental and physical toughness. Hockey takes skill and a large body. Basketball requires you to be tough mentally as well as physically. Have you seen how clutch Jordan, Magic and Kobe were?

For me, basketball is the best sport because it's a team sport that requires precision and cooperation from everyone. You need to rotate and cover your teammates on defense, get in the right position for the pass, and make the smart choice to pass or shoot. You can go one on one if you have to (like Jordan) to win the game or you can pass it to a teammate and trust them to make the shot. I guess hockey concepts are similar to basketball but basketball is less limited. Crossovers, drop steps, fade aways, layups, dunks, three pointers, spin moves, between the legs, behind the back, off the backboard...you can do so many different things. In hockey, I just see them check each other into the walls, try to get the puck, clear it across the rink, chase it down, shoot, and do it all over again.

Ex-squeeze me? Nearly everything you named can be done in hockey, and it's done with a bent stick, not your hands. Not to mention that it's done on a slippery surface, your doing it on skates, and there's somebody you have to get by in order to score a point. Size doesn't matter unless you're an enforcer (or if no one likes you, a goon). Hockey is infinitely more complex and deep than basketball, and that's what makes it entertaining, rather than run to one end of the court, score, run to the other end, score, rinse, wash, and repeat. The players actually have to work for their goals, not just toss the ball in the air and *swish* two points.

Anyway...that was my rant. I get defensive about basketball because I <3 it. I would give my left nut to protect it.

Figures you would half-ass it.:P

Nah, I totally understand. I get the same way with the infinitely superior sport of hockey.

Smokey, Sidney Crosby or whatever his name is, has been mentioned as the next Great One...I think.

He's got the potential, but he's got a ways to go before he gets there. Not that I wouldn't mind, so long as he stays with Pittsburgh. But he definitely won't get there if he can still miss an empty net. That still ticks me off.:doh:

Jordan has earned the title of His Airness...also called the greatest of all time, or G.O.A.T. by some. To argue your point further, the reason there are LeBrons and Kobes around to be mentioned in the same breath as Jordan is because there are way more NBA players and way more basketball players around the world than there are hockey players. That just makes the likelihood of finding the next great one a lot greater.

Jordan was great, one of a kind. Key word being "was". Not only are players becoming as good as Jordan was and making names for themselves, Jordan is no longer "Great One" material. One needs only look at his business practices to see that. Gretzky hasn't sold out his values system, and that's part of what makes him The Great One.

Lebron James is mentally weak and is not a winner like MJ was. MJ was the complete package as he had 1. Phenomenal talent 2. A tremendous work ethic 3. A will to win like no other. Lebron James isn't even in the conversation with MJ. As a matter of fact, Kobe is the only raw talent who even mimics MJ in the slightest and even then he's a distant distant second. He's spent his entire career trying to be MJ rather than the best player he could be personally.

It seems to me that if basketball is as much of a game of mental toughness as you and Jason say it is, Lebron wouldn't be as much of a great player as he is. Yet he is. As far as Kobe mimicking Jordan, all I can say is that Kobe applies himself differently. Both are great players, but whereas Jordan shames the spirit of basketball in the boardroom, Kobe shames it in the bedroom. It's amazing what the NBA will put up with so long as a guy can play ball. At least the NHL has some moral standards. But I'm getting off-topic (only slightly, but I am). It's not just ability that separates Gretzky from Jordan and the others, it's moral fiber and character, as well.

[Luis Sera]

The fact that we've discussed Michael Jordan (a basketball player) in an obviously Hockey focused thread for the better part of the past two pages tells me that I'm right and Basketball is the better sport. Also, Michael Jordan is the greatest athlete in the history of sports and there is no argument any of you can make against that. Furthermore, it's my opinion that some of you might be picking hockey to make up for the lack of manliness and toughness in your own lives. Hockey is a tough sport with tough fans, something that none of you strike me as at all. Not trying to be rude, just make an observation.I don't even know where to begin, which is a thought I often have when you pontificate your "opinion" on any given subject.

[MR EPIC]

^Well then don't post if you have nothing to say. Also, your sig's too big. Read the rules.

[Luis Sera]

It's my opinion that you're interested in video games because you're old and out of shape and like to play video games, a traditionally youthful endeavor, to make up for the lack of youth and vigor in your own life.

There, a baseless, irrelevant and potentially offensive "opinion" I've expressed in a similar fashion to yourself. Like I give a **** what anyone thinks is manly. I'm Canadian. I was raised playing and watching Hockey. End of.

[Monkeylord]

I'd just like to say (from the perspective of someone who really couldn't care less about ANY sport) that this thread is funny as hell.

[Sascha-AMN]

Hockey is better. Perfect mix of speed, finesse, strategy and aggression. Compare that to basketball where breathing on a guy in the wrong way is a foul and individual baskets are meaningless until the last 5 minutes of the game.

On the subject of Micheal Jordan vs. Wayne Gretzky, I have only this to say. No man (or woman) will ever be as good at anything as Wayne Gretzky was at hockey.

[Joey D]

Smokey, Sidney Crosby or whatever his name is, has been mentioned as the next Great One...I think.

As much as I love Sid the Kid, I don't think he's ever going to be as good as Gretzky. He's an incredible hockey player, he sees the ice and constantly dishes up incredible feeds, but Gretzky is Gretzky. I just wish I was alive when The Rocket played for the Habs.

I'm giving the win to Hockey. Basketball has always been boring for me. Just never been intrigued. Granted, Hockey's my favorite sport, so slight bias there.

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[Lizzaroni]

Hmmm, yeah, I have to take issue with the whole "hockey is just for big bodies" things. That's just as dismissive as "Basketball is just for tall people." Having sit in on hockey practices, virtually everything chipotle mentioned about basketball is done in hockey (like Smokey said, swap the hands/basketball for stick/puck) and there you go. I'd argue it's even more dynamic, given power plays and the like.

[HGW XX/7]

I'm really surprised how many hockey fans there are on Kombo. I seriously only know two people in real life who care about hockey and that's only because they actually play for their college teams.

Basketball is loved by millions around the world. Reason? Because it's more accessible and more fun to play and watch. You can be 5'6" and make it in the NBA as long as you can do one thing really well (shoot, pass, defend). Hockey requires a large build and the ability to punch people in the face for the hell of it (Ron Artest could be a hockey player).

I dare say hockey is a more popular sport worldwide than basketball. It's probably fairly close, but you forget that Russia and Canada (2 bigass nations), and almost the entirety of Europe are where hockey is king. I doubt that basketball dominates in really any country.

Since when does Hockey require a large build? Have you ever seen Wayne Gretzky?

Michael Jordan is easily the best athlete ever. LeBron is pretty close..he's a freak of nature, but Jordan took basketball to a whole new level. The Showtime Lakers were great and entertaining to watch but Jordan's brilliance was amazing too. I don't even like him much as a person but I can't argue against his greatness.

ANY athlete who has played and succeeded in more than one sport is a better athlete than Jordan. He was **** at baseball. He might be the best basketball athlete ever, but there's countless others with more raw athletic talent than Jordan.

Basketball takes skill, athleticism, mental and physical toughness. Hockey takes skill and a large body. Basketball requires you to be tough mentally as well as physically. Have you seen how clutch Jordan, Magic and Kobe were?

Basketball requires a big ego and an expensive shoe deal. Hockey is a much more mental sport than basketball for a variety of reasons. There's always so much going on at such a fast pace, that's stressful in itself, but could you imagine being a goalie? I doubt it. You should try it sometime, it's the most stressful thing you'll ever do. Hockey requires teamwork. Basketball requires one superstar and a group of average players.


For me, basketball is the best sport because it's a team sport that requires precision and cooperation from everyone. You need to rotate and cover your teammates on defense, get in the right position for the pass, and make the smart choice to pass or shoot. You can go one on one if you have to (like Jordan) to win the game or you can pass it to a teammate and trust them to make the shot. I guess hockey concepts are similar to basketball but basketball is less limited. Crossovers, drop steps, fade aways, layups, dunks, three pointers, spin moves, between the legs, behind the back, off the backboard...you can do so many different things. In hockey, I just see them check each other into the walls, try to get the puck, clear it across the rink, chase it down, shoot, and do it all over again.

Fairly reasonable except the limits you blindly place on hockey. Basketball is about making it flashy. Hockey's about gettin' it done.

Anyway...that was my rant. I get defensive about basketball because I <3 it. I would give my left nut to protect it.

edit:

Smokey, Sidney Crosby or whatever his name is, has been mentioned as the next Great One...I think.

Jordan has earned the title of His Airness...also called the greatest of all time, or G.O.A.T. by some. To argue your point further, the reason there are LeBrons and Kobes around to be mentioned in the same breath as Jordan is because there are way more NBA players and way more basketball players around the world than there are hockey players. That just makes the likelihood of finding the next great one a lot greater.

Crosby will never come close to what Gretzky is. He's a damn good player, but he's no Great One.

Also, I defy you to find actual proof that basketball is played on a professional level by more people in more countries, 'cause I seriously doubt it.

There's my rant rebuttal rant. Don't get defensive about it, it's partly (key word her) joking around.

[Lizzaroni]

Hmmm, I think things like commercialism and popular styles of play don't really factor into what is "inherent" in a sport. I suppose styles of play could factor into what ranges of athleticism are possible for a given sport, but it would also be folly to absolutely assert superiority given that we don't even know where this range will end (for example, dunking is clearly in the range for basketball but no one would have known this until someone dunked and therefore it would have been outside analysis prior to that event.) I realize I commented on professional play earlier, but in retrospect much of that is a poor measurement. I could easily point out that a lot of the flashiness and shoe deals have not always been present and arose largely as a result of the business aspect of basketball, not because of some shoe-property that is innate in the sport. Similarly, these characteristics are not present in women's professional basketball, which illustrates how this something that varies from who plays/what the audience is, and not something that is truism of basketball.

Another thing to consider are the rules of the sport. There was a time in baseball where very deliberate rules were put in place so players had to rely on small ball over raw power. Clearly it's different now and it's partially due to a liberating change in rules. Think of the different defensive rules for the NBA and college basketball. This is more of a digression, though.

Basketball requires a big ego and an expensive shoe deal. Hockey is a much more mental sport than basketball for a variety of reasons. There's always so much going on at such a fast pace, that's stressful in itself, but could you imagine being a goalie? I doubt it. You should try it sometime, it's the most stressful thing you'll ever do. Hockey requires teamwork. Basketball requires one superstar and a group of average players.
This is a reach. Hockey isn't more of a mental sport because goalies have to be aware. First you say this is "fairly reasonable":

For me, basketball is the best sport because it's a team sport that requires precision and cooperation from everyone. You need to rotate and cover your teammates on defense, get in the right position for the pass, and make the smart choice to pass or shoot. You can go one on one if you have to (like Jordan) to win the game or you can pass it to a teammate and trust them to make the shot. I guess hockey concepts are similar to basketball but basketball is less limited. Crossovers, drop steps, fade aways, layups, dunks, three pointers, spin moves, between the legs, behind the back, off the backboard...you can do so many different things. In hockey, I just see them check each other into the walls, try to get the puck, clear it across the rink, chase it down, shoot, and do it all over again.
And then argue that hockey still requires more mental acuity. Most of these elements are what make up the mental aspect of both games, and you just admitted they're essentially present in both but one sports executes it in a way that is "too flashy." How is that even possible? Either hockey is a superior mental game because it has certain elements basketball lacks, or they have comparable mental requisites -- they just execute it all differently. By the way, I'd argue that people who pick fights are giant drama queens. In every other sport you're required to have a certain degree of self-control whereas in hockey fights are considered part of the sport of the ethos. I'm OK with that, but let's not talk about (current) flashiness when a certain lack of discipline is (currently) imbedded in hockey.

[HGW XX/7]

My post was essentially a tongue in cheek anti-rant that wasn't meant to be taken all that seriously. Sorry that didn't get across.

[Lizzaroni]

Np, wasn't sure since you only said "partly joking."

Anyways, here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_sports_leagues) is a list of both professional basketball and ice hockey leagues. At first glance, there appear to be more pro-basketball.

[HGW XX/7]

^Thank you. The status of leagues/players was one of the things I wasn't joking about. I thought Hockey'd have an edge in numbers but I thought it'd be real close.

[MR EPIC]

It's my opinion that you're interested in video games because you're old and out of shape and like to play video games, a traditionally youthful endeavor, to make up for the lack of youth and vigor in your own life.

Hey, you're not too far off. See how that works? :)

In all seriousness though, it's a tough choice to pick between Hockey and Basketball for me. I'd probably give the nod to Hockey though because of the focus and concentration it takes to stay balanced on skates while getting hip checked, swatted at, being required to keep your eyes on a tiny puck and defend your zone at all times. Deflecting the puck into the net for a goal has to be the second most difficult thing to do in sports behind hitting a baseball.

It's just hard for me to imaging having to choose between the two sports and possibly losing the opportunity to see MJ play basketball for all those years. He was the model of inspiration to so many people, and had some of his best performances while damn near having pneumonia. He was the perfect combination of skill, hard work and a will which refused to lose.

The problem today with basketball is that too many players rely on their athleticism only when they should be disciplined enough to learn how execute the plays properly. They're bigger, stronger, and faster and therefore feel as if they don't have to work as hard as others. That's why the NBA is filled with a lot of talent but very few true winners.

[Smokey]

Np, wasn't sure since you only said "partly joking."

Anyways, here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_sports_leagues) is a list of both professional basketball and ice hockey leagues. At first glance, there appear to be more pro-basketball.

Without checking, I'd be willing to bet that most of those basketball leagues aren't very large. I mean, leagues in countries like Montenegro can't be really large for obvious reasons. Then compare that with the NHL, Russia's KHL, and even the AHL and ECHL. I mean, the KHL has teams in four countries, and the ALIH has teams in three. Those are monstrous. All of those leagues are rather sizable, though the ECHL has been losing teams for the past several seasons.

[Lizzaroni]

I can't find the numbers and I'm not going to calculate them myself (especially considering you'd have to account for differences like average size for a full team in each sport, etc) but the size of the league is only one factor -- that could just as easily mean hockey's very popular in concentrated areas of the world. You know, cold areas ;) Also, I reckon the numbers would have to be adjusted to a per capita estimate of # of professional players per # of people in the country. Even then it'd be a little funny; think of all the younger US basketball players who opt to spend a year on a European team instead of college because of the age requirement in the NBA.

I think a better estimate, anyways, would have to include amateur leagues, proliferation of youth leagues, viewers for televised events, and so on and so forth.

[Hottotty]

An actual logo for a high school basketball team:
http://cdn-www.cracked.com/articleimages/wong/artichokes.jpg

This never happens in hockey. Ever. I rest my case.

[Lizzaroni]

Does this high school have a hockey team?

[HGW XX/7]

Does this high school have a hockey team?

If it does I guarantee you they go strictly by the 'Chokes' and their logo is a man strangling another man.

[Lizzaroni]

So you don't know.

[Smokey]

I do. (http://plone.scottsdalecc.edu/athletics/mens-sports)

No hockey. Which explains a lot about that school. Oh, and it's a community college.

[Lizzaroni]

So are we including football as an equal to basketball? I mean, it's not just the basketall team's name, it's the school's. If the school ever had a hockey team, it would adopt the same name. It seems, to me, this is a strike against the school and not basketball.

[Smokey]

^Nah, this simply reinforces the fact that hockey is superior to all sports played at this school. Not that reinforcement was needed, but there you have it.

[HGW XX/7]

^Nah, this simply reinforces the fact that hockey is superior to all sports played at this school. Not that reinforcement was needed, but there you have it.

Seconded.

[Smokey]

^Nah, this simply reinforces the fact that hockey is superior to all sports played at this school. Not that reinforcement was needed, but there you have it.

Thir- oh wait.

[HGW XX/7]

Motion passed. Now the next order of business.

Basketball players used to wear extremely short shorts.

Who wears short shorts? Fail wears short shorts.

[Buddy Magert]

As someone who personally played basketball all his life all throughout HS and community college and still plays in adult leagues and The summer league here in DC .I will start with saying that even though i have never played hockey (which means that i have no clue of how it is being on the ice) I can say that everyone in this thread is underestimating the game of basketball. It takes a lot of skill and practice to really get good at it. I bet u given 10 chances someone can make more wide open 25 ft hockey shots in the goal than 25 ft basketball shots. yes hockey has speed but if u honestly play some highly skilled bball players u will see the speed. We all know there is no defense in the NBA but watch college around March Madness or even go to ur local gyms where the players who are the best where u are at are playing u will really see that BBALL deserves more respect.

Forrest Gump:"And thats all i gotta say about that". LOL

[HGW XX/7]

As someone who personally played basketball all his life all throughout HS and community college and still plays in adult leagues and The summer league here in DC .I will start with saying that even though i have never played hockey (which means that i have no clue of how it is being on the ice) I can say that everyone in this thread is underestimating the game of basketball. It takes a lot of skill and practice to really get good at it. I bet u given 10 chances someone can make more wide open 25 ft hockey shots in the goal than 25 ft basketball shots. yes hockey has speed but if u honestly play some highly skilled bball players u will see the speed. We all know there is no defense in the NBA but watch college around March Madness or even go to ur local gyms where the players who are the best where u are at are playing u will really see that BBALL deserves more respect.

Forrest Gump:"And thats all i gotta say about that". LOL

Of course they can make more wide open shots you dolt, the size of projectile to target difference is immense.

Basketball doesn't have a fully armored warrior standing in front of the destination to destroy your hopes and dreams.

Which is why more basketball players will make a 1 on 1 shot from 25 feet and score than a skater vs goalie shot from 25 feet.

It's harder to get it past a goalie than it is another man jumping in front of you.

Edit: That made me sound like a jerk. I guess what I'm trying to say is you can't compare wide open shots like that for the two sports. They're entirely different in the aspect of how you score.

[Buddy Magert]

Ok that basis was kinda stupid of me (I admit after actually reading)but basically what i mean is that u need ALOT more skill to play bball then u guys are trying to give. Ok so in hockey u fight ur on skates so ur supposed to be faster but in the end basketball is the way better sport when it comes to skills actual fun and overall worlwide appeal. I bet any money i could pick up some hockey gear and in three months be really good at hockey and able to compete when i can give u guys three months and u would be lost on a bball court.

And yes MJ is the greatest athlete in the world.

[HGW XX/7]

Ok that basis was kinda stupid of me (I admit after actually reading)but basically what i mean is that u need ALOT more skill to play bball then u guys are trying to give. Ok so in hockey u fight ur on skates so ur supposed to be faster but in the end basketball is the way better sport when it comes to skills actual fun and overall worlwide appeal. I bet any money i could pick up some hockey gear and in three months be really good at hockey and able to compete when i can give u guys three months and u would be lost on a bball court.

And yes MJ is the greatest athlete in the world.

I promise you that in 3 months you wouldn't have the basic ice skating skills necessary to compete in a game with fairly amateur hockey players.

Don't get me wrong, my downplaying of athleticism and everything in basketball is joking around.

I've played both sports at high school level and participate in local leagues when I have the time (not for basketball currently, but I did about 2 years ago). Hockey takes a lot more out of you in a shorter period of time. I can play basketball for a much longer burst than I can hockey while still being effective.

I think both sides are underestimating eachother. Each sport has their own things they excel at, but you have essentially admitted you don't really know too much about hockey rule/play-wise right? If you were to actually try to get into a league or something, I'm fairly sure you'd think something along the lines of, "****, there's a lot more to this hockey **** than I thought.". That doesn't mean hockey or basketball is better, it's just what you prefer.

I'll admit, I prefer playing pick-up games of street-ball over an organized game of basketball anyday. Self-officiating and some pretty unique plays come around. It's more enjoyable. NBA style basketball just doesn't appeal to me in most cases.

Do I prefer hockey over basketball? Overwhelmingly yes, but it suits my tastes more. Playing basketball with friends can be a blast, but I hate the game when people start taking it too seriously.

[Lizzaroni]

^Nah, this simply reinforces the fact that hockey is superior to all sports played at this school. Not that reinforcement was needed, but there you have it.
1) That's a stupid assertion given that there's not even a hockey team at that school; 2) an isolated instance (this school) doesn't give any conclusive evidence about the preference of the whole of society, let alone the inherent superiority of hockey as a sport.

EDIT: HG: That's because the NBA is crappy. As I said before, their setup -- from scheduling to rules -- dilutes a lot of what makes basketball fun to play/watch in other leagues (or pick up.) I also think "It takes a lot of practice" and "It's more demanding" all factor into which is better but to make a decision based on these factors alone is folly. It's like saying spinach is the best food ever because of nutritional quality and texture.

EDIT 2: I also think you're seriously exaggerating how hard it is to acquire "basic ice skating skills." I might not have played competitive hockey before but I've certainly ice skated and, even downplaying general athletic ability, it's not that hard to learn. Coupling that with basic hockey skills (passing, etc) I'm certain you could find a league that suits your level of play (and probably hones those rudimentary skills) well before three months.

[Smokey]

1) That's a stupid assertion given that there's not even a hockey team at that school; 2) an isolated instance (this school) doesn't give any conclusive evidence about the preference of the whole of society, let alone the inherent superiority of hockey as a sport.

1) No self-respecting hockey team would allow itself to be called "the Fighting Artichokes". They'd stop playing, probably leave and find a school with a better name.

2) You're taking this way too seriously. My intention for this thread was to make a joking and lighthearted environment and to stimulate discussion. Proving hockey's superiority was a secondary reason. Mostly because little proof is needed.:P

[HGW XX/7]

EDIT 2: I also think you're seriously exaggerating how hard it is to acquire "basic ice skating skills." I might not have played competitive hockey before but I've certainly ice skated and, even downplaying general athletic ability, it's not that hard to learn. Coupling that with basic hockey skills (passing, etc) I'm certain you could find a league that suits your level of play (and probably hones those rudimentary skills) well before three months.

I still guarantee that after three months you won't have the ice skating or hockey skills to compete in any league that has even the faintest hint of competition.

[Lizzaroni]

HG: "Something"
Liz: "Actually, I think [something else] because [reasons.]"
HG: "Something."

[HGW XX/7]

I bet any money i could pick up some hockey gear and in three months be really good at hockey and able to compete when i can give u guys three months and u would be lost on a bball court.

To what my original statement was aimed at.

EDIT 2: I also think you're seriously exaggerating how hard it is to acquire "basic ice skating skills." I might not have played competitive hockey before but I've certainly ice skated and, even downplaying general athletic ability, it's not that hard to learn. Coupling that with basic hockey skills (passing, etc) I'm certain you could find a league that suits your level of play (and probably hones those rudimentary skills) well before three months.

I'm sure he could be playing at around a beginners junior hockey level in 3 months. I'd hardly call that competing.

Ice hockey requires just a bit more than "Basic Ice Skating Skills" and being able to compete requires beyond "Basic Hockey Skills"

[Lizzaroni]

If it's team A versus team B and they're keeping score with a winner, it's a competition. There's no rule about having reached a certain skill level before it's competitive. Also, your claim requires a static level of practice - what about the person who practices three hours a day for three months versus the person who practices an hour, etc etc?

[HGW XX/7]

I believe you missed the part where he said he'd be "REALLY GOOD" at hockey. I'm assuming he's never ice skated before (or more than a few times at least).

Granted the more you practice the faster (generally), though unless you're some kind of prodigy it would take more than a few months to be considered "Really Good" at just about any sport by anyone who knows anything about the sport.

Also, 'really good' is a fairly bland way to word it. Really good at what level? Local pick-up league? Amateur? Semi-Pro?

I would hardly consider myself a 'really good' skater in terms of hockey aptitude, and I've been doing it for years. Compared to your casual ice skater who's never played hockey or done figure skating type stuff though? Then I'd consider myself 'fairly good'.

My understanding is that if someone is 'really good' at something, it means that they're at a higher level than most in that particular situation. Do they have to be the best? Of course not.

You can be good at anything, but you won't be able to step up to the next level unless you're 'really good' at that anything. If you're bowling and out of your group you bowled the highest score of a whopping 103, you'd be 'really good' in terms of your group, but in the scope of the entire activity of bowling? You suck.

[Lizzaroni]

I don't care about his original words because you clearly made a broader statement:

I still guarantee that after three months you won't have the ice skating or hockey skills to compete in any league that has even the faintest hint of competition.

[HGW XX/7]

I don't care about his original words because you clearly made a broader statement:

What if I added "That would be considered respectable for your age" at the end of the quote there, would you be happy? Or are you going to continue sucking the fun out of a thread that wasn't really being taken seriously by anyone.

It's the internet, and a video game forum with a bunch of sarcastic assholes at that, live a little. Think big. Talk big. Get a sense of humor.

Smokey himself said this thread is more of a fun thing than serious debate.

We talked about a ****ing artichoke mascot! Serious business.

Hockey's better 'cause it has an H in its name. 100% proof of more awesome than basketball.
/thread lulululololz

[Robert-AMN]

Hockey duuuuuuuh. There are far more leagues and levels to give more players the chance to play for a living.

Who wouldn't want to play something for a living?

Basketball is too long and too little action to be really liked for me. Sure there are some players that are better than others, but as a whole as Sascha said, nothing really matters till the end of the game. The tempo and momentum of a hockey game can change in literally a second with a goal, check, or save.

[Lizzaroni]

HG: I don't need to get a sense of humor. I've no problem joking around and my original protest to your claim was in no way harsh or "mean." There's no need to be so sensitive about it.

[Smokey]

My thread. It's...ruined...*bursts into tears*

[Luis Sera]

Hey, you're not too far off. See how that works? :)Right, well, you were.

The problem here is, you're a cool guy and we've always got along well (obviously) but you have a tendency to be quick to anger and resort to irrelevant (In this case incorrect.) personal criticisms. You'll catch more flies with honey than with being a dick. To be succinct. :)

[Lucas]

Hockey or Basketball?

Football.

[Smokey]

^http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3214/2433053248_f20196f5bd.jpg