Kid Icarus: Cutesy or "Mature"?

[ReaganYouth]

Edit: Some of the images didn't come out right. Let me fix it real quick.

Please, let's not talk about whether or not the game is really coming. I happen to know something about it, but I'm not allowed to say anything.

Kid Icarus has been a rumored Wii game for a while now. It's also said that Factor 5 will be handling it's development, which is very uncomforting to me. Many of my real life friends want it to be a dark, gritty game like Prince of Persia: Warrior Within or even Manhunt 2 (wut?). Or as I like to call it, "God of War with wings and a bow". This in particular bugs me because the original was a cutesy, charming, and lighthearted take on Greek/Roman mythology.

So now that you know my answer, it's your turn. Would you rather it look like this?

http://www.vgmuseum.com/scans/gb/KidIcarusG-Front.jpg

Or this?

http://www.pinkgodzillagames.com/news/Kid.Icarus.Dead.Phoenix.jpg

http://ps2media.gamespy.com/ps2/image/article/544/544965/prince-of-persia-warrior-within-20040907011720796.jpg

[Tanooki]

I don't think your poll is fair. The original game was constrained by the hardware so it really wasn't cutesy by intent but as much design. Your two images above, the airborne one I wouldn't call cutesy either, but I'd rather it look serious and softer like that than the prince of goth emo whiner within type format.

Since your poll hasn't an answer for me, you get a discussion.

[MR EPIC]

Maybe the graphics were limited but the music wasn't. And when I hear the original KI music I hear "cutesy". Think about it, even the music when you die is cartoonish.

[Tanooki]

I always thought of it as more of a very limited symphony belting out a classic inspired piece for the stage music crippled by the ability of the NES not to sound (then) like a cassette tape recording. It would with that chirpy stuff start out like a flute diddle and then lead into the group doing the main piece.

[ReaganYouth]

Only the first picture is cutesy, Jeff. The Dead Phoenix one goes under the mature category.

Zelda: Ocarina of Time is as far as it should go in terms of 'maturity'. Anything more than that would kill it, in my opinion.

And anyway, this is Nintendo we're talking about. If this game were being made in-house today, I have no doubt it would have the same feeling.

[Brian-AMN]

Yes, it shouldn't be TOO mature and violent, not like God of Waror anything, but a Zelda level would work. I quite liked Pit's design from Smash Bros. so I'd say go with that all around.

[ReaganYouth]

Yes, it shouldn't be TOO mature and violent, not like God of Waror anything, but a Zelda level would work. I quite liked Pit's design from Smash Bros. so I'd say go with that all around.

I liked that design too. I doubt they'll use that though.

[MR EPIC]

Why would you doubt it? Every other SSB character uses the same character model from their franchises.

[ReaganYouth]

Why would you doubt it? Every other SSB character uses the same character model from their franchises.

Factor 5 is making it, not Nintendo. They also had concept art for the new game.

[MR EPIC]

Nintendo doesn't make SSB either, Hal Laboratories does. And this "Concept art" you speak about was most likely a fan mock-up.

[ReaganYouth]

Nintendo doesn't make SSB either, Hal Laboratories does. And this "Concept art" you speak about was most likely a fan mock-up.

That's my whole point. Unless HAL makes it, that model most likely won't be used.

[MikeWolfskin]

HAL had very little to do with Super Smash Brother Brawl, in fact electronic arts staff helped work on it. It was in that interview that was about the making of brawl before it hit early this year. Needless to say if Nintendo whats to use that model they can because they own the copyright on it. Example DKC was done by rare but that model is Nintendos.

[thegamecubist]

HAL had very little to do with Super Smash Brother Brawl, in fact Game arts staff helped work on it. It was in that interview that was about the making of brawl before it hit early this year. Needless to say if Nintendo whats to use that model they can because they own the copyright on it. Example DKC was done by rare but that model is Nintendos.

Fixed :)

I personally don't really care, as I don't have many memories of Kid Icarus. I agree with Brian though; the SSBB artstyle was perfect. Evolved from the bulbous look of the original but not Gears of War.

[MR EPIC]

Electronic Arts ROFL!!!

[ReaganYouth]

Fixed :)

I personally don't really care, as I don't have many memories of Kid Icarus. I agree with Brian though; the SSBB artstyle was perfect. Evolved from the bulbous look of the original but not Gears of War.

Hey, I liked that bulbous look.

Electronic Arts ROFL!!!

Roffle Waffle!

[thegamecubist]

To each their own. Mario, obviously, looks perfect with that artstyle. However, when I think "warrior" I think something more lean, athletic. I guess that's why I like the SSBB look so much.

[ReaganYouth]

To each their own. Mario, obviously, looks perfect with that artstyle. However, when I think "warrior" I think something more lean, athletic. I guess that's why I like the SSBB look so much.

Pit isn't a warrior though. He's a shrimpy little angel fella who's called upon to save Ancient Greece* from Medusa. Simple.

*I know it's called Angel Land. I just like calling it Greece.

[Smokey]

I prefer mature to cutesy. Honestly, I think a Kid Icarus (more Icarus than Kid, actually) in the mold of Prince of Persia (not necessarily WW, SoT would be fine) would be awesome. However, I'm not totally convinced that they would go that far. I definitely think that a more mature Pit would sell better. I mean, adult Link is much more popular than young link. I think the same would hold true for Pit and Kid Icarus in general.

[ReaganYouth]

I prefer mature to cutesy. Honestly, I think a Kid Icarus (more Icarus than Kid, actually) in the mold of Prince of Persia (not necessarily WW, SoT would be fine) would be awesome. However, I'm not totally convinced that they would go that far. I definitely think that a more mature Pit would sell better. I mean, adult Link is much more popular than young link. I think the same would hold true for Pit and Kid Icarus in general.

http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/7/75/Gtfo.gif

BTW, it would only sell better than America.

[JValone]

America would probably be considered the primary market for this game anyway, I would assume. Perhaps the Japanese fans are just as rabid but it seems to be that it's Americans, and American media, that consistently ask Miyamoto/Iwata/Reggie about the franchise at every opportunity.

I think it's very telling that Factor 5 was chosen for the revival. If Nintendo wanted a Japanese-styled game they would have chosen a Japanese developer. In fact it would probably be easier to find one of those than to outsource it to a Western company to be honest. With F5 running the project I doubt it will be anything resembling "kiddy". For those of us that don't care for the mad dash towards blood-splattered "maturity" (truly a bastardized use of the term, thanks a lot western gaming media) an OoT or TP-like look is the best we can possibly hope for given the evidence.

I actually do think the Brawl character model has a strong chance of being used, or at least a derivative of it. The decision to revive the series was no doubt influenced in large part by incredibly positive fan reaction to Pit's inclusion in Brawl. It wouldn't make sense for Nintendo, always a conservative bunch, to stray too far away from that successful formula. Factor 5 might give a bit of edge to the existing model, but that's probably it. The rest of the world is where they could really go overboard, that's what I'm concerned with.

[MR EPIC]

As long as you guys don't get carried away with the gifs and the trolling in this thread I'll leave it for now. I actually find the last one pretty amusing.

[Lucas]

Frankly, I don't think the Brawl version was that "Japanese" in appearance. If it walks the line in the same way that Metroid Prime did in it's walk into 3D, I think we'll all be happy. As long as Sakamoto keeps a close eye on the whole thing, all should be good. Factor 5 is a competent studio, and they've got a better reputation than Retro did going in.

[ReaganYouth]

Frankly, I don't think the Brawl version was that "Japanese" in appearance. If it walks the line in the same way that Metroid Prime did in it's walk into 3D, I think we'll all be happy. As long as Sakamoto keeps a close eye on the whole thing, all should be good. Factor 5 is a competent studio, and they've got a better reputation than Retro did going in.

That raises the question though. Do the Japanese devs at Nintendo even give a damn about Kid Icarus? I mean, it was all but abandoned for almost 2 decades now. Taking that into consideration, I don't see why they would send anybody from the NOJ branch to crack the whip at Factor 5.

If they do though, I'm all for it. The farthest I'm willing to go is Ocarina of Time/Majora/Wind Waker style in terms of "maturity". Any further than that, then count me out.

[Hottotty]

Personally, if they want it to be a franchise that has staying power, I don't see how they could make it too mature. The only "mature" franchise they've still got is Metroid, and in Metroid the blood is green and you're killing evil aliens. We all know Nintendo well enough to know that they won't be going more mature than that.

I see Kid Icarus going the way of Wind Waker, but that's just me.

[ReaganYouth]

Personally, if they want it to be a franchise that has staying power, I don't see how they could make it too mature. The only "mature" franchise they've still got is Metroid, and in Metroid the blood is green and you're killing evil aliens. We all know Nintendo well enough to know that they won't be going more mature than that.

I see Kid Icarus going the way of Wind Waker, but that's just me.

I would love that (the Wind Waker idea).

Kid Icarus NEEDS to be kiddy people. Why do you think they call it KID Icarus?

[Tanooki]

Would the Japanese care after that long with the Kid Icarus game? YES. Nintendo still as far as their properties go seem to in the last few years have taken an interest in ensuring things are done right, in particular when farming out to an overseas (American) entity. Metroid had been all but dead from 1993->Metroid Prime on the Cube, a good decade gap. I don't see why they'd not care to give the same hands on snooper watchdog position on this project too.

Also it's unless they rework it just 'ICARUS' not 'Kid Icarus' for this game as I was told. When we last left Pit on both the NES and GB titles when the game ends with the 'good' ending he gets boosted up to adult size and a nice smooch too if I recall. There has to be some story behind him being mini and weak to win and be restored, and the Smash model is a grown up too...there's no KID in this game. I'd seriously expect an endeavor of the magnitude of 'darkness' of Ocarina and Twilight with likely a platforming like element with upgrades like God of War to stick with the times and be competitive.

[ReaganYouth]

Would the Japanese care after that long with the Kid Icarus game? YES. Nintendo still as far as their properties go seem to in the last few years have taken an interest in ensuring things are done right, in particular when farming out to an overseas (American) entity. Metroid had been all but dead from 1993->Metroid Prime on the Cube, a good decade gap. I don't see why they'd not care to give the same hands on snooper watchdog position on this project too.

Also it's unless they rework it just 'ICARUS' not 'Kid Icarus' for this game as I was told. When we last left Pit on both the NES and GB titles when the game ends with the 'good' ending he gets boosted up to adult size and a nice smooch too if I recall. There has to be some story behind him being mini and weak to win and be restored, and the Smash model is a grown up too...there's no KID in this game. I'd seriously expect an endeavor of the magnitude of 'darkness' of Ocarina and Twilight with likely a platforming like element with upgrades like God of War to stick with the times and be competitive.

Oh no, I'm completely fine with the Smash Bros. Brawl model. At least he doesn't have a bloodthirsty attitude and a manly scowl. He's still rather young and adventurous, so he would fit the title perfectly in my opinion.

[Z.E.I.D.A.N]

I'd prefer mature just coz most Nintendo IPs aren't, but I can see some sort of cel-shaded look being pretty awesome. As long as the game's in the right hands, they'll know which art direction works the best.

[ReaganYouth]

I'd prefer mature just coz most Nintendo IPs aren't, but I can see some sort of cel-shaded look being pretty awesome. As long as the game's in the right hands, they'll know which art direction works the best.

True, but most everything else out there today IS "mature". If anything is lacking these days, it's cutesy, charming games like the original KI titles. And if they try too hard to appeal to the 15 year old nu-metal trouser snake generation, it will likely lose what made the franchise so promising in the first place.

Edit: I keep forgetting the nu-metal trend is over. --~

[Smokey]

http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/7/75/Gtfo.gif

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff302/slypuck2/ObamaHellNo.jpg

What would be wrong with casting Pit in the mold of the Prince from Sands of Time? That wasn't gory or anything dark like God of War or the subsequent PoP games. And I wouldn't have much of a problem with cel-shading, but if the next Kid Icarus looks like Wind Waker, I'm gonna be pissed.

[MR EPIC]

Maximo style Pit = Win

SSBB style Pit = Win

Cel-shaded Pit = Acceptable

PoP mature Pit = a PS3/360 game

[Hottotty]

I do remember being at an In and Out in California and there was this group of kids talking about how Xbox is better than Gaycube. I was so jealous for not thinking of that first. But anyway, that's how kids think. They wanna be cool and being cool means acting like adults. Adults like GoW, and so to be cool... you get the drift.

[MR EPIC]

Yes, and likewise adults want to be kids nowadays. SO GIVE US OUR CUTESY PIT DAMNIT! :)

[Darc Requiem]

Intelligent Systems games have always been the more "mature" games as far as Nintendo IPs go. I don't think Kid Icarus should be God of War, DMC, or Ninja Gaiden but it should be somewhere in between Twilight Princess and Metroid.

[Darc Requiem]

Metroid was quite mature and Western. Twilight Princess was just soulless.

I hope KI has neither of those qualities. But I realize I'm hoping for a lot here.



Ah, geez. I remember all the kids in my high school that made fun of me for playing Pokemon Red and Blue and told me to grow up. There was also one kid who told me not to buy anything unless it was rated T or above.

I didn't take their advice though.

Metroid has been "mature" since the NES days. The original Kid Icarus was on the "same engine" and from the same development team as Metroid.

[MR EPIC]

Reagan - Let people have their opinions if they'd like. You seem to be follow every post that doesn't mirror your own and then criticizing it somehow. The majority seem to want it cutesy so just be happy with that.

[MR EPIC]

You've already made your point. Making that point after every other post is not only annoying but borderline asking for an argument. I'd hate to have to close this thread down.

[Smokey]

It just doesn't feel right for Kid Icarus. What I would like to see is a Wind Waker style look because that's what I feel is best for the game. Going for a Sands of Time look would ruin it. Like I said, Ocarina of Time is as far as I'll go. Anything else would be over-Westernization.

As was mentioned earlier, the original only seems kiddie/cutesy because of technological constraints, not because the devs wanted a cute widdle angel shooting arrows at the big bad snake head.

Again, I don't see a problem with a Sands of Time look. It wasn't all that mature, which is probably why it got a Teen rating rather than the Mature rating the subsequent installments received. I mean, there wasn't any blood at all. The monsters were made of sand, for crying out loud! How "mature" is that?

And if you're concerned about over-Westernization, you're bound to be disappointed since the game is being made by a Western dev.

[JValone]

If Pit resembles the personality of PoP: Sands of Time I will definitely not buy that game. The prince was more incessantly whiny and unlikeable than Tidus from FFX yet that was rarely mentioned in reviews. His totally childish behavior throughout the adventure basically ruined the story for me because I just hated him so much. Visually it was fine though, I think they could spare Pit the goatee but otherwise it's alright with me.

[Smokey]

I guess I understand now why you've been putting up the opposition that you have been. I don't think that Kid Icarus should have the personality of PoP. I just meant that the artstyle and general character design would look really good for Pit.

[HGW XX/7]

BTW, it would only sell better than America.

I wouldn't consider that a bad thing.


Next.

[Tanooki]

I voted another cutesy for you just because of the general behavior. :D

[HairwayToSteven]

Cutesy is winning 3 to 1.

[Hottotty]

Math?

[HairwayToSteven]

^Yes.

[Smokey]

Math?

Wut is dat?:hmm:

[HairwayToSteven]

^Who nose.

[Smokey]

Joo nose.

Incidentally, I think a Pit game in the mold of PoP or GoW would kick some major ass.

[HairwayToSteven]

Joo nose.

Incidentally, I think a Pit game in the mold of PoP or GoW would kick some major ass.

PoP = maybe.

GoW = noooooooooo.

Why would you want it to be like God of War? If they did that, it would be the same game wouldn't it?

[Smokey]

Man, seeing an adult Pit fly in the face of the Colossus of Rhodes and stab him in both eyes at the same time would be ****ing awesome. I'm not even looking for anything remotely related to Kid Icarus, except for the usage of Pit.

[HairwayToSteven]

Man, seeing an adult Pit fly in the face of the Colossus of Rhodes and stab him in both eyes at the same time would be ****ing awesome. I'm not even looking for anything remotely related to Kid Icarus, except for the usage of Pit.

That would explain it. I'm just a guy with fond memories for the old NES Kid Icarus who wants to see it brought into 3D. Let's just agree to disagree.

[MR EPIC]

Nintendo should just give the original Kid Icarus a point job a la Bionic Commando and Spelunker on PSN, add in a co-op mode, and call it a day. No KI revival (especially being developed by F5) is ever going to live up the amount of time that Nintendo is making is wait. It hasn't even been announced for cryin' out loud. Then the release will likely be a year and a half after that, if it ever happens.

[HairwayToSteven]

Nintendo should just give the original Kid Icarus a point job a la Bionic Commando and Spelunker on PSN, add in a co-op mode, and call it a day. No KI revival (especially being developed by F5) is ever going to live up the amount of time that Nintendo is making is wait. It hasn't even been announced for cryin' out loud. Then the release will likely be a year and a half after that, if it ever happens.

I thought you said it was coming. :brow:

[Smokey]

That would explain it. I'm just a guy with fond memories for the old NES Kid Icarus who wants to see it brought into 3D. Let's just agree to disagree.

NEVAH!

Seriously, I'd be cool with either one (provided your revival doesn't look like a rip-off of Wind Waker, anyway). Preferably both, though.

[HairwayToSteven]

Wind Waker rocked.

[Smokey]

Yeah, it was a great game, but I'm talking about art style. While it was something new, and the novelty overrode any dislike I may have had with it (plus the idea of kiddie character and cartoony art style went well together), I wouldn't care for that look to start becoming the norm for established Nintendo games, Kid Icarus among them.

[HairwayToSteven]

Kid Icarus is about a kid, though. Not a savage bloodthirsty brute.

[Smokey]

He could be a bloodthirsty monster, though. Not much of a stretch to go from angel to angel of death, ya know.;)

[JValone]

Nintendo should just give the original Kid Icarus a point job a la Bionic Commando and Spelunker on PSN, add in a co-op mode, and call it a day. No KI revival (especially being developed by F5) is ever going to live up the amount of time that Nintendo is making is wait. It hasn't even been announced for cryin' out loud. Then the release will likely be a year and a half after that, if it ever happens.

I don't know about that. Nintendo has been really weird about announcements lately. We didn't know about Wario Land at all until just a few months before it released, then Disaster got dropped from release lists and was magically returned to the list just a few weeks before it hit stores. The last Nintendo game I can recall having an extended period between announcement and release was Mario Kart Wii and that wasn't even an entire year. I think Nintendo is enjoying the position they're in right now and don't feel obligated to hype anything that's a year or more away, they seem completely content to let fans know 4-6 months in advance.

Honestly if it wasn't F5 doing the revival I think we'd still be in the dark about it. Western developers have been more prone to major leaks so we're kind of lucky in that regard. Although it would have been pretty nifty if no one knew and Iwata popped up at GDC with an Icarus announcement adding "you'll be able to play it this summer" (in Japan). That would have blown some minds.

[HairwayToSteven]

Well, it's not even official that Kid Icarus is coming, so let's not get ahead of ourselves.

[Darc Requiem]

Kid Icarus is about a kid, though. Not a savage bloodthirsty brute.

You do realize that Pitt isn't a kid at the end of KI right?

[HairwayToSteven]

You do realize that Pitt isn't a kid at the end of KI right?

Of course. But he's still not a bloodthirsty brute, is my point.

[Smokey]

Hey, Pit can change. Look at the Prince from Prince of Persia and the change in personality that he underwent from SoT to WW. Or Jak from Jak and Daxter to Jak 2.

Speaking of, I want a new Jak and Daxter game, not some cheap racing game or a shovelware title like Daxter.