Joe Biden v. Sarah Palin, or how Oct. 2nd brought the Lols [Archive]

Z.E.I.D.A.N

10-02-2008, 06:21 PM

Unless both candidates behave, this is gonna be one of the more fun debates of the year.

On one hand you have Joe Biden, who puts his foot in his mouth on a regular basis. Be it his proclamation that FDR addressed the nation on TV in the 1920s, or openly admitting that Hillary Clinton would have been a better VP pick than him, Joe Biden majors in funneh. He's a gaffe machine, but he's a lovable one.

And on the other hand you've got Sarah Palin; equally lovable, not so much experience, but she can hunt you down from the sky. Sure she doesn't know what the Bush doctrine is, and doesn't know any court cases outside Roe v Wade, but she's got breasts. And she's a barracuda! Look it up.

So what are you guys expecting tonight? Palin's been cramming for the last week, and tapes of her old governor debates show she's got chops, so do you think she'll end up with a good showing? If not, what do you think is gonna happen to the McCain campaign as a whole? As for Joe Biden, do you think he'll behave? Tell me your expectations, and then tell me who impressed you more tonight (after the debate obviously).

MAX

10-02-2008, 06:27 PM

Sneak peak at the possibilities the night may have in store for us:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBt0r9Exv2I

Smokey

10-02-2008, 07:03 PM

I don't think Biden will be able to help himself. Something Palin says will set him off, I think. I'll go ahead and predict that Biden is going to win this debate, hands down.

MAX

10-02-2008, 07:11 PM

We should turn it into a drinking game..

Tanooki

10-02-2008, 07:12 PM

I'm going to have to agree with Smokey. She'll likely bear some teeth tonight to stave off the gotcha question holes she has fallen into lately. I know I'm in the minority at this site, but I could give a crap if a small population state governor isn't familiar with supreme court constitutional law interpretations, but she flubbed that badly regardless.

I think this is going to get quite interesting during parts of the night.

Lizzaroni

10-02-2008, 08:02 PM

The bar is so low for Palin at this point that all she has to do is not suck and she'll come out at least even. Also, no matter what anybody says, there are just weird things about the male-female dynamic and Biden will have to really watch his step else "aggressive" will come off as "attacking", and no matter how warranted it might be, the public will most likely interpret that as a negative. Palin could misstep as well, but the one thing (and possibly only thing) she's actually good at is toeing the line between toughness and femininity.

I care what she knows about the SC given that, if she actually ends up stepping up to the plate, SC nominations would be squarely in her hands. There are buttoads of justices waiting to retire.

Lucas

10-02-2008, 08:18 PM

If I were Biden--here's what I would do. Let her have the first 30 minutes. Let her show some teeth and expose herself as a grade-A sawtooth barracuda. I know women of her type. They live all around these parts. They can only play the "look at me, aren't I an innocent little person" routine for so long before getting all wound up and tearing into you. Play it fair and even and tear into her only after she shows her true colors. We all know McCain is looking to play the sexism card.

But it doesn't matter in the long run. I still think McCain is going to win this, no matter how far ahead Obama is in the polls. Al Quida will pull something, or whatever the October surprise is, then everybody will shift to McCain and regret it later. Americans are a predictable lot.

HGW XX/7

10-02-2008, 08:51 PM

It should be noted that the moderator for tonight has a pro-Obama book that's s'posed to come out on inauguration day.

I wonder how fair this'll turn out.

Lizzaroni

10-02-2008, 09:00 PM

I don't know why so many Obama supporters are pessimistic about his chances. If I was a betting girl, I'd easily put my money on Obama, hands down.

Darc Requiem

10-02-2008, 09:28 PM

Am I the only one that thinks Palin is completely tanking right now. I kinda of feel sorry for her.

Lizzaroni

10-02-2008, 09:35 PM

Biden's running circles around her. I hate half the **** he's saying but he's much better at articulating his position, not to mention Palin's redundant and her argument often circular ("No I do not think it will be pleasing because the government is not pleasing and if the government is not pleasing then I do not think people will be pleased since it is not pleasing.")

WHAT

Darc Requiem

10-02-2008, 09:44 PM

Yeah I don't agree with some of what Biden is saying either. Not all of his answers are completely truthful but he answers the questions at least for the most part. Palin just flat out refuses to answer some of the questions and seems to be going back to set talking points.

Brian-AMN

10-02-2008, 10:08 PM

Neither of them are saying anything new...just like the last debate. They're sticking to their platforms pretty well. I think Palin's doing pretty well. She hasn't tripped up at all and Biden hasn't said anything off the wall crazy yet (lots of heavy sighs though)...which is dissappointing to me. I was hoping to be entertained by lots of goofiness...ahh, there's still time!

Smokey

10-02-2008, 10:21 PM

That folksy talk and all the hockey/soccer mom references are REEEEEEEALLY getting on my nerves. I swear to God, this woman is Canadian. "Oh, there you go again, Joe. Doggone it..." I was just waiting for her to throw in that "eh".

With that said, Biden is definitely winning this debate. I also find it interesting that she keeps jumping on Biden about straight talk when she hasn't answered a damn question. Finally, she's just as ignorant (I wouldn't call her stupid...yet) as McCain is concerning the leadership of Iran. I'm glad Biden actually came out and showed everyone just how ignorant she is. The sad part is that she went right back and used Achmedinajad as an example of leaders we shouldn't meet with, along with Kim Jong Il and Raul Castro, AFTER Biden pointed out who really rules Iran.

Oh yeah. Palin and McCain are a team, alright. I don't think "maverick" is the word that fits, though.

Lizzaroni

10-02-2008, 10:25 PM

Biden just won. The whole bit about his family + FINALLY calling out the maverick bull**** -- he might as well conclude with "put that in your pipe and smoke it."

Brian-AMN

10-02-2008, 10:26 PM

I think most people will see the "winner" as the person they've already decided to vote for. I have not yet decided who to vote for...and I'm not seeing anything to sway me either way. Both are sticking to the party line. Neither has made a genuine connection. I don't find Palin's small-town "gee whiz" style offensive or annoying at all, like many people seem to. I don't think that matters. They're both polititians...they're both talking in circles. Nobody has had a major flub, which I wanted to see just for laughs.

Darc Requiem

10-02-2008, 10:28 PM

I am in agreement with Liz. Biden crushed her. Palin couldn't or wouldn't answer the bulk of the questions.

Brian-AMN

10-02-2008, 10:30 PM

I don't know...I think she gave plenty of answers...only I didn't need her to say them as they were as predictable as can be. Same for biden. Towing the party line...depressing really.

Lizzaroni

10-02-2008, 10:33 PM

I don't know...I think she gave plenty of answers...only I didn't need her to say them as they were as predictable as can be. Same for biden. Towing the party line...depressing really.
Anybody can give answers. Hers were barely related to the questions she was asked; it was blatantly obvious she's memorized talking points and had to find ways to manipulate the questions to fit those points. It was painful to watch, and I originally thought that they'd hold out even at this debate. Biden cleaned her clock.

Darc Requiem

10-02-2008, 10:34 PM

Brian I disagree. She never answered the question regarding McCain's deregulation stance. She basically said in a round about way that she wouldn't answer the questions regarding McCain's deregulation stances. Then at one point said, well i've only been in this for five weeks and I don't know. She often just rambled on off topic while not answering the question asked.

Brian-AMN

10-02-2008, 10:37 PM

Smokey

10-02-2008, 10:38 PM

Biden is my new hero. In the space of about half an hour, he threw the ignorance (Iran) and blatantly false propaganda ("Maverick") of the McCain/Palin campaign in their face. I only wish Obama had been a little more aggressive and done it with McCain.

And the truly sad part is that neither John McCain or Sarah Palin will acknowledge how badly they ****ed up tonight.

EDIT: Brian, the first question is the only one I saw Biden "dodge". He answered the questions and stayed fairly on-topic. I wanted to stand up out of my chair, reach through the TV screen and shake Palin, screaming "THE QUESTION, MOTHER****ER! DO YOU KNOW IT?!"

Lizzaroni

10-02-2008, 10:39 PM

It's not that Biden was saintly and Palin is the only candidate who committed faults, it's that such faults permeated her entire performance while Biden directly answered questions more consistently and clearly.

Brian-AMN

10-02-2008, 10:45 PM

Darc Requiem

10-02-2008, 10:46 PM

^ And Biden didn't? They both dodged the first question like they were in the Matrix! All I heard was MORE partisan drivel...but there were no major gaffes which is what people really remember. I think Jim Leher made a better moderator as he occassionally pressed the issues more.

I'm not saying Biden didn't. As I've said earlier, he answered the questions for the most part. Palin answered about 4 questions in a row by going back to energy policy when it had absolutely NOTHING to do with what she was asked.

MAX

10-02-2008, 11:02 PM

I am in agreement with Liz. Biden crushed her. Palin couldn't or wouldn't answer the bulk of the questions.

STRAIGHT TALK!!! She admited she wouldn't answer the questions. She talked about energy ("Hey, remember energy? Me? Energy. I love energy. Drill into me for oil!") in response to a question about bankruptcy. What a joke. She also got the name of the General wrong. It wasn't Mcllelen. I'm surprised Biden didn't correct her. She definitely had some "facts" memorized, but had a hard time applying them to the context of the question. She didn't really respond to anything, she just kept going back to talkingpoint.com... The poor deer. She was in way, way over her head. No matter what happens in the election, though, Palins award is in heaven! Let's see, she doesn't care about the causes of climate change, but she wants to fix it. :confused: She totally dodged making a firm stance about full Civil Liberties for same sex couples by deliberately misinterpreting the question and instead agreeing with Biden about not legistlating a redefinition of marriage. Her eyes were on rapid blink during the Iraq topic. That pause after Biden pointed out they have no plan for Iraq was priceless. She just looked down and "ummm"ed it. Biden pointing out that Ahneedablowjob is not the power in Iran was pure gold. I'm so disgusted with Palin right now. Who the **** is dumb enough to vote for this piece of **** and her old man puppet master? Anyone watching FOX? I want to know how they are going to spin this in her favor.

Oh, by the by. Which War did McCain win exactly? The one still going on, or the one where he was captured and imprisoned? Let me know right after they kill the "Maverick" ****.

Tanooki

10-02-2008, 11:08 PM

Well...I'm dissappointed all around. I really don't know who to vote for...Used to really like Obama, but not lately. I used to like McCain a lot too. It's like the campaigns these days bring out the worst in everybody. The sad fact is that there is very little difference in the Dems and Reps in this country and neither is going to bring real cahnge no matter how many times they say it.

Ahh...it doesn't matter anyway as I don't live in a swing state. My electors are locked in.

Spoken for truth on that, even on the electors as this is a 14-15+% McCain state.

I saw I think it was you bringing up Biden acting like a bit of a pompous ass and I have to agree. There were a lot of sighs, glares, laughing, and other dumb sound effects while acting a bit sour. In the personality contest part of this thing as sadly that counts too Palin didn't come off like a bitch like Biden did. Both of them had some dodges (like the Matrix as someone already used) and both stretched some facts or changed the topic for sure. Biden though did come off like a jerk with a few cases such as trying to mock Palin and McCain over the surrender timetable to retreat thing which is just sad. Everyone wants out, but you just don't go 'we are leaving by christmas 2010' and think that's going to end up in anything but delayed disaster. Stability is needed, not a date. Palin for what was expected of herself did strong, but she did have moments she did ignore some issues and didn't take Biden to task on his half truths as well as she should...but she didn't come off as a dumbass in that format where the reporters love to do gotcha questions and use suggestive clips.

HGW brought up the moderator, and to answer, she did allow Biden a couple times a little room to be a jackass and get the final word not allowing Palin to rebut some very truth stretched crap, but for the majority of it she was level surprisingly.

Max: ...I'm watching Fox and CNN, and actually they're (Fox) not really playing her up so much. They're asking both D's and R's to get both sides feeling using the very unbiased Chris Wallace right now with (D)Senator McCaskill. I'm sure Hannity will kiss her ass in the next few minutes when they come on though while of course Colmes will try and tear her up while puffing up Biden while Sean gives him the roughshod.

MR EPIC

10-02-2008, 11:13 PM

I agree with each Brian's post 100% (weird because we seldom agree on gaming). I'll take a notch further, and while I'm not suggesting either side won the debate, I still feel that Biden like Obama talked the talk but didn't outline any strategies. All he did was talk about how bad the past 8 years have been and continually repeat himself just like Obama did. The one point I did clearly agree with him on though was that we do need to indentify how we reached the point we're at with the climate change and global warming before we're able to move on and fix it. Palin was content to dismiss the cause and head straight toward a solution. I also thought Biden had the funniest quote of the night in regards to health care reform: "That is the fastest way to build a bridge to nowhere". He made that point so emphatically that not only did the crowd chuckle a bit, I almost spit out my soda. Let me finish off by saying that whoever wins these elections I didn't mind looking at Governor Palin for 90 minutes at all. While she came off a bit arrogant as did McCain towards Obama, she is one sexy politician.

Lucas

10-02-2008, 11:16 PM

You know, this really didn't decide anything. Both sides played to their parties. Now, besides that, I'm really, REALLY sick of Palin's folksy horse****. "Joe six-pack and hockey moms"? Jesus. Fodder for the fanbase--nothing more. As for the debate went, yes, Palin held her own...by saying pretty much nothing for 90 minutes. She danced around every single issue and refused to answer. It's that behavior that got her in trouble with Katie Couric this week because Couric wouldn't back down, but that kind of nonsense works in a debate structure. Biden was guilty of it to, but to a FAR lesser extent. Palin recited her lines well, but really offered little in terms of info. I don't think Palin crumbled. She just didn't offer anything substantive, though we all know America and Substance don't always go hand in hand.

Though I believe Biden won the debate by a landslide, this decided nothing. It was 90 minutes of fan pandering to the base and seething at the other one. Frankly, I think people have already taken their sides and are ready to ride it out...at least until the October surprise.

Lovebird

10-02-2008, 11:23 PM

Palin = FAIL.

The economy?
Alaska has billions of barrels of oil and trillions of cubic feet of beautiful natural gas.
The war?
Alaska has billions of barrels of oil and trillions of cubic feet of beautiful natural gas.
Education?
Alaska has billions of barrels of oil and trillions of cubic feet of beautiful natural gas.
Energy?
We're mavericks.

Wut.

Tanooki

10-02-2008, 11:25 PM

Lucas: It's fodder for the undecided whether you like it or not. In this day and age of hating Washington so damn badly from partisan bull**** to this wall street meltdown centered from their antics anyone coming off not as your average scumbag politician will get some happy points by the undecided group.

For the record I sadly believe both them came out even. They both pulled some Matrix crap, and while Palin answered a few things on her own choice, Biden did some more nearly straight lying out of his teeth...plus the moderator let him a couple times say some pure crap without allowing a rebuttal to it (which isn't surprising considering the inauguration day book deal she has.)

Nice post Patrick, that's either sarcasm or you truly went into that hearing what you wanted to hear and nothing more.

DEATHSTAR

10-02-2008, 11:29 PM

How the hell could anyone who watched that debate say that Biden didn't outline, repeat or restate the candidtate and ticket's position clearly? Couple that with the fact that the republican VP candidate didn't, refused, filibustered the majority of the questions posed to BOTH participants.

That fact alone is a loss. She could have given the wrong answers, or bad answers but refusing to answer the questions was just appalling.

Note that I'm not even getting into the substance of either candidates answers. If you can pretend like you don't know who won that debate, then you deserve to be confused. Even if you don't like Biden you can't seriously walk away from that thinking he didn't win, if for any reason other than answering the damn questions the moderator asked for better or worse.

Darc Requiem

10-02-2008, 11:31 PM

Nothing even about the debate. I didn't agree with some of what Biden said, I knew that he was stretching the truth on some of his answers but except for the question that the moderator called them both out on. He answered the questions given to him. Palin repeatedly went back to energy policy on unrelated questions.

Tanooki

10-02-2008, 11:32 PM

Of course you'd say that, look at your xbox gamertag icon. :D

MAX

10-02-2008, 11:38 PM

Survey of about 1000-1200 people on the debate, live:

Washington Bailout
D- 88% Biden, 12% Palin
I- 62% Biden, 38% Palin
R- 20% Biden, 79% Palin

Economic Meltdown
D- 85% Biden, 15% Palin
I- 67% Biden, 33% Palin
R- 24% Biden, 76% Palin

Taxes
D- 89% Biden, 11% Palin
I- 72% Biden, 28% Palin
R- 24% Biden, 76% Palin

Bankruptcy Bill
D- 88% Biden, 12% Palin
I- 69% Biden, 31% Palin
R- 22% Biden, 78% Palin

Climate Change
D- 83% Biden, 17% Palin
I- 64% Biden, 36% Palin
R- 16% Biden, 84% Palin

Benefits for Same-Sex Marriage
D- 87% Biden, 13% Palin
I- 65% Biden, 35% Palin
R- 17% Biden, 83% Palin

Iraq War Exit Strategy
D- 88% Biden, 12% Palin
I- 68% Biden, 32% Palin
R- 20% Biden, 80% Palin

Threat to the US [Iran/Pakistan]
D- 87% Biden, 13% Palin
I- 66% Biden, 34% Palin
R- 18% Biden, 82% Palin

Use of Nuclear Weapons- Mediacurves has this duplicated by accident, the two were averaged to get the answers- in any case the differences were minor
D- 85% Biden, 15% Palin
I- 67% Biden, 33% Palin
R- 18% Biden, 82% Palin

VP Responsibilities
D- 87% Biden, 13% Palin
I- 72% Biden, 28% Palin
R- 23% Biden, 73% Palin

Winning the Debate
D- 87% Biden, 11% Palin
I- 69% Biden, 31% Palin
R- 19% Biden, 80% Palin

Percentages are subject to rounding errors, sometimes do not add up to 100%.

Analysis-

Biden won the debate by the same margin as the Obama-McCain one, perhaps slightly stronger, and so gained a minor victory.

Biden's strongest 3 areas among Democrats- Taxes, Bailout Bill, Bankruptcy
Biden's strongest 3 areas among Independents- VP Responsibilities, Taxes, Bankruptcy Bill

Palin's strongest 3 areas among Independents- Bailout Bill, Climate Change, [Same Sex Marriage/Nuclear Weapons (TIED)]
Palin's strongest 3 areas among Republicans- Bailout Bill, Climate Change, [Threat to US/Nuclear Weapons (TIED)]

Biden's weakest 3 areas among Democrats- Economic Meltdown, Climate Change, Nuclear Weapons
Biden's weakest 3 areas among Independents- Bailout, Climate Change, Same-Sex Marriage

Palin's weakest 3 areas among Independents- VP Responsibilities, Taxes, Bankruptcy Bill
Palin's weakest 3 areas among Republicans- VP Responsibilities, Economic Meltdown, Taxes

Overall, Biden came out strong on Taxes and Bailout strongly, but seemed to almost draw the climate change and same-sex marriage debates. He, in absence of the expectations effect, should be awarded a minor win to moderate win.

Palin did not win a single section, but her strong areas on the bailout bill, climate change, nuclear weapons, same sex marriage, and iran/pakistan she came close to a wash. Palin's single worst issue was the VP responsibilities, where she was demolished among independents.

Both candidates took a very moderate stance on the economy, scoring higher with independents and less with their own party than expected.

A party effect was not witnessed- in the first debate Obama supporters and McCain supporters said their candidate won the debate despite losing all the issues. However, this did not appear happen here- if anything.

Mediacurve (http://www.mediacurves.com/)

DEATHSTAR

10-02-2008, 11:39 PM

Of course you'd say that, look at your xbox gamertag icon. :D

I'd say that regardless of who's ticket had a VP candidate that refused to answer the moderators questions. You chose to turn a blind eye to that attribute my gamer tag to me having heard questions but no related answers (right or wrong, agree or disagree) from one of the candidates? Your judgement is obviously flawless.

MAX

10-02-2008, 11:48 PM

Anyone that actually thinks that debate came out in favor for Palin, or even for that matter, is clearly a diehard Palin supporter and loves her style over substance debates. Please watch Olbermann for a healthy dose of reality. She spoke in complete sentences, but her answers were content-free and they didn't even answer the questions Iffil asked. Didn't Palin call for an EXPANSION of the Vice Presidency? That should be alarming to everyone, after 8 years of... Cheney / Bush. At this point, I think anything less than Palin falling over and crying would be viewed as a debate victory by her supporters. The bar has been set so damn low that one of Fox's poll questions was "Did she do better than you expected?" I just wish her idiot followers would stop pretending that this isn't the case.

Tanooki

10-02-2008, 11:49 PM

I didn't say it was flawless, but it's just not so desperately left leaning is all. As said by many here already, to each their own. I think they did fairly even. Both made good points.

You got to be ****ing kidding me Max if you think Olbermann isn't anything but a far left leaning showpiece tool. I can't stand listening to that guy as he's so unfair to anyone he doesn't completely agree with that it's sickening.

Lizzaroni

10-02-2008, 11:51 PM

I really don't see how anyone could say Palin held her own. Just because she managed to make some sort of response doesn't mean she was up to par, only that she wasn't a giant trainwreck.

If I hear one more person complain about how candidates haven't gone into the nitty gritty of their plans, I'll scream. At best, the most you can do at these debates is give a basic outline. There's simply not enough time to devote to each candidate per topic. At least Biden did that much. Palin simply skirted around virtually every topic but energy, Alaska, and her family tree.

MAX

10-02-2008, 11:53 PM

^ Truth

Darc Requiem

10-02-2008, 11:56 PM

Lovebird

10-02-2008, 11:57 PM

Sascha-AMN

10-03-2008, 12:00 AM

I think Palin did well as far as not looking like a complete and utter ****ing moron out there (a nice change of pace from her last few appearances), but Biden definitely came out on top.

Darc Requiem

10-03-2008, 12:00 AM

I don't think she is incompetent or incapable. I do think she is clueless however. She wasn't planning on being a VP candidate. She has had to have cram sessions on very complex issues.

Tanooki

10-03-2008, 12:01 AM

MAX

10-03-2008, 12:09 AM

Yeah... the self proclaimed "moderate" is cracking on the rest of the board about "reality and balance" after stating he thought the debate was even. lol Despite the fact you haven't really bothered to explain in detail how you come to that obviously "balanced reality." Were you even watching the same debate, or were you too busy hoping that there would be a swimsuit competition mixed in so that Palin could actually... oh... she came in 2nd in that too. Nevermind.

Lovebird

10-03-2008, 12:11 AM

DEATHSTAR

10-03-2008, 12:20 AM

Sigh...I can see more and more why Sean and Ken stay out of these threads as there's a general lack of some level of reality and no balance what so ever. Can't wait for this damn election cycle to get over with already whoever the hell wins.

Fact is, with the bailout, war, and the other mini-bailout before it...neither side is going to be able to do their larger promises as the cash isn't there. Less harm will be done whether it's a socialist healthcare plan and welfare checks, or a lack of interest in net neutrality and some overkill sanctity to life crap.

Ken is too busy forwarding me chain emails to join the McCain fundraising force, no joke. But regardless, him and Sean staying away from these threads doesn't make your position on Palin somehow breaking even in a debate in which she didn't adhere to the predetermined rules by answering the moderators questions any more logical.

Smokey

10-03-2008, 12:32 AM

She just sounded, acted, and looked stupid. She's only a maverick in the sense that she pronounces words however she feels like. Jesus H. Christ on a Jazzee Chair, IT'S PRONOUNCED NEW-CLEAR, NOT NUKE-YOU-LURR! What's next, is she going to spell potato with an "e"? :P (Quayle FTL)

Most of the time, I thought she hid it relatively well. Whenever she was being folksy, though, it showed. BIG TIME. I've personally had it with presidents and vice presidents with strong accents of any sort. With Obama and Biden, we'd have leaders that at least sound intelligent and won't embarrass us in talks with other countries with their ridiculous accents.

Biden at least is at a higher degree of intelligence that is beyond most; which is what I expect from a Presidential or Vice Presidential candidate.

I couldn't agree more. I want the person that's leading me to be marginally more intelligent than me. That hasn't happened for the past eight years (on the presidential level, at least, the Antichrist is a pretty crafty fella), and it sure won't happen if the majority decides to vote Republican.

Tanooki

10-03-2008, 12:44 AM

I don't need to qualify anything to you max. Even if I did one of my long winded classic posts that drive people nuts you'd just find some lefty way to tear it to shreds because that's how you view things. You can't get me to see it different than a tie, and I sure as hell won't agree Biden steamrolled it as he didn't.

Deathstar sorry to hear you're being spammed.

My attitude on her not answering all the questions is that I feel that the moderator as is wasn't an impartial moderator from the get go...she has a massive book deal on the line. The woman allowed Biden to tear up some stuff Palin said and didn't leave her room to rebut it which is sheer bias. I don't blame her after the moderator did that in the early bits of the debate to just blow her off with that bit of 'I do not care what you or biden want to make me fall into I will answer as I please' line she said.

Personally had I been her when I made my welcome statement I'd have put the moderator into question congratulating her on her book subtitled 'The Age of Obama' coming out on inauguration day. It's known that it wasn't brought to the McCain camps attention until after they had agreed to her moderation and he didn't seem to thrilled about it either when questioned in the media this morning about it. For what Palin had going against her into this between the moderator and Bidens 35~years of experience she did fine.

MR EPIC

10-03-2008, 12:52 AM

Of course you'd say that, look at your xbox gamertag icon. :D

I agree. People tend to stick with what they decided on in the first place, and unless I'm misquoting Robb again, he admitted to doing as much in the other thread. More specifically he talked about sticking with a party and a philosophy rather than an individual. I couldn't disagree more. The right person for the job is the right person for the job regardless of what party he or she happens to be in.

Lucas

10-03-2008, 12:55 AM

I love to watch partisan people complain about partisan politics. It always makes me chuckle. I know I'm just as guilty, but it's still funny.

Sigh...I can see more and more why Sean and Ken stay out of these threads as there's a general lack of some level of reality and no balance what so ever. Can't wait for this damn election cycle to get over with already whoever the hell wins..

I'll drink to that.

Smokey

10-03-2008, 12:56 AM

My attitude on her not answering all the questions is that I feel that the moderator as is wasn't an impartial moderator from the get go...she has a massive book deal on the line. The woman allowed Biden to tear up some stuff Palin said and didn't leave her room to rebut it which is sheer bias. I don't blame her after the moderator did that in the early bits of the debate to just blow her off with that bit of 'I do not care what you or biden want to make me fall into I will answer as I please' line she said.

Personally had I been her when I made my welcome statement I'd have put the moderator into question congratulating her on her book subtitled 'The Age of Obama' coming out on inauguration day. It's known that it wasn't brought to the McCain camps attention until after they had agreed to her moderation and he didn't seem to thrilled about it either when questioned in the media this morning about it. For what Palin had going against her into this between the moderator and Bidens 35~years of experience she did fine.

I actually thought the moderator was rather lenient toward Palin. I didn't even know about the book deal. A couple of times I was questioning whether this woman had some kind of feminist bias or something.

I agree. People tend to stick with what they decided on in the first place, and unless I'm misquoting Robb again, he admitted to doing as much in the other thread. More specifically he talked about sticking with a party and a philosophy rather than an individual. I couldn't disagree more. The right person for the job is the right person for the job regardless of what party he or she happens to be in.

Which isn't McCain, and certainly not Palin, no matter which way you slice it.

Tanooki

10-03-2008, 01:00 AM

^^
#1 She has written a book about up and coming/successful black politicians, but much of the book highlights Obama and it comes out on Jan 20th (inauguration day) which obviously means she has a HUGE stake in him winning. HE wins that book will likely sell 10x as many copies which means millions.

#2 Says you. ;) McCain and Biden are the most qualified and competent of the bunch.

DEATHSTAR

10-03-2008, 01:02 AM

I agree. People tend to stick with what they decided on in the first place, and unless I'm misquoting Robb again, he admitted to doing as much in the other thread. More specifically he talked about sticking with a party and a philosophy rather than an individual. I couldn't disagree more. The right person for the job is the right person for the job regardless of what party he or she happens to be in.

You're agreeing with nothing that has to do with nothing. In this thread all I've said is that if you walked away thinking this was a tie when one candidate didn't answer a good deal of the questions, even flat out said she wasn't going to answer the questions... you're seeing what you wanted to see.

I haven't commented on the substance of either candidates responses only the fact that one of them couldn't follow the pre agreed to debate format and just answer the questions directed at her.

Now if you just wanted to be agreeing with something that didn't pertain to this topic you've succeeded.

As to my comment in the other thread, I once again, merely pointed to the fact that if you're voting for someone or something that can't win you're fooling yourself thinking that you've done a greater good. Never said that you should vote with a party no matter what.

@ All:
The McCain camp has known about this woman's book for quite sometime this wasn't something they just found out about tonight or last week. It wasn't a problem for them, shouldn't be one for you. She could (should) have got on Palin about not answering the questions and didn't... if anything she did Biden and the debate veiwers a disservice if anyone.

Lizzaroni

10-03-2008, 01:08 AM

^ Seriously, and I reckon she let Palin slide precisely because if she did her job as a moderator the McCain camp would have used it [her forcing Palin to stay on topic] as ammo. I reckon the reason why no one in that camp pitched a fit was precisely because they could use it to create elbow room.

DEATHSTAR

10-03-2008, 01:10 AM

MAX

10-03-2008, 01:17 AM

Leave it to Jeff to resort to his "they're obviously biased" method of arguing his position. Leave it to Jeff to argue his position without actually giving details. *eye roll* No one is trying to get you to believe anything. If anything, people are giving you examples of why you opinion is retarded. You can espouse your little "you're a lefty/liberal/etc" jabs, but it's clear that you didn't watch the same debate if you actually believe that the VP debate was in anyway an even encounter.

As far as the moderation went, and impartiality, once again no examples were given by Jeff (surprise surprise). No one questioned Jim Lehrer's impartiality? Because Gwen has a book coming out about Obama, she can't possibly be impartial. Do I have that correct,? This book has been known about since July. It's publication has been noted in such obscure news magazines as Time magazine, and newspapers like the Washington Times. If McCain's people failed to note it before agreeing to allow Gwen Ifill to moderate, it shows they are INCOMPETENT. Besides, Palin could have had Rush Limbaugh as the moderator and still would have come across as if she has no clue about the issues.

MR EPIC

10-03-2008, 01:42 AM

You're agreeing with nothing that has to do with nothing. In this thread all I've said is that if you walked away thinking this was a tie when one candidate didn't answer a good deal of the questions, even flat out said she wasn't going to answer the questions... you're seeing what you wanted to see.

I haven't commented on the substance of either candidates responses only the fact that one of them couldn't follow the pre agreed to debate format and just answer the questions directed at her.

Now if you just wanted to be agreeing with something that didn't pertain to this topic you've succeeded.

As to my comment in the other thread, I once again, merely pointed to the fact that if you're voting for someone or something that can't win you're fooling yourself thinking that you've done a greater good. Never said that you should vote with a party no matter what.

All this blah blah blah just to defend your image and come out on top as always, relax man. :rolleyes:

What I was agreeing with was the fact that it's no surprise that you took the stance you did, judging by your Gamertag pic and your previous comments in the other thread. If I some how misunderstood your comments by all means you have my sincerest apology, but there's no need to sound to much like a politician yourself when we're all among friends here.

Coral

10-03-2008, 01:56 AM

Darc Requiem

10-03-2008, 07:31 AM

Deathstar and Liz, I agree with you both. I don't understand how anyone can say the debate was even when one candidate wouldn't answer the questions as presented. This isn't a question of policy. If you don't answer question in a debate you lose that debate. I'm gonna have to find transcript of the debate.

Tanooki

10-03-2008, 07:40 AM

There goes Max again taking his typical personal attacks which isn't surprising. Again why I said it's pointless to have an opinion here if you're in the middle or right because people like him will just crack on people and try to diminish them to make a point. You are aware both your posts have been a cheap attempt at both insulting my intelligence and trying to goad a fight of which you have been warned and banned already 1 day over. I hope the moderators do their job and give you a week off as you obviously don't care about the special rules the 4 of us have do you? You just keep it up as a week of silence as if the moderators value their rules will be coming shortly.

Darc Requiem

10-03-2008, 07:59 AM

Good I found the debate transcript. Here is the link

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/02/debate.transcript/

DEATHSTAR

10-03-2008, 08:24 AM

All this blah blah blah just to defend your image and come out on top as always, relax man. :rolleyes:

What I was agreeing with was the fact that it's no surprise that you took the stance you did, judging by your Gamertag pic and your previous comments in the other thread. If I some how misunderstood your comments by all means you have my sincerest apology, but there's no need to sound to much like a politician yourself when we're all among friends here.

My gamer tag had pretty much nothing to do with my responses in this thread. Jeff Rivera's comment didn't have much impact the first time he said it and you quoted it as I don't believe many people were arguing that the debates were opinion changing events in either thread. We've all been discussing the performance of the candidates in the debates not whether or not they changed minds or saved lives as a result.

My comments in this thread would apply to Joe Biden if he didn't answer questions last night as well. I look at the debate last night as one candidate strategically preventing herself from making highlight reels by not answering questions that she couldn't. Unfortunately that meant most of the questions. That's not to say Joe Biden was right with his responses, only that he answered the questions asked of him per the mutually agreed upon debate rules/format.

Tanooki

10-03-2008, 09:22 AM

Sure Palin didn't answer some stuff, and in some cases she finished her case before answering, but in the case of the second she was given little choice but to do that. Ifill at a 3:1 ratio gave Biden the last word allowing him the ability to try and twist stuff Palin said so she had to use her question time to rebut which was sad. She also when leading off with Palin tended to word questions in a more negative light such as the gay marriage issue which both sides appeared to agree on anyways. Palin put Biden into the defensive quite a bit where he had to do dry talking points around eye rolling, lip licking, talking down, pontificating, and quite a few sighs around some really big fabrications like the coal issue. Biden's biggest moment I feel was towards the end speaking of family loss, poor bastard, no one should ever have to go through what that man did and it took some huge balls to still take that office that night from his home with 2 kids he had no idea would pull through or not.

HGW XX/7

10-03-2008, 10:07 AM

MR EPIC

10-03-2008, 10:19 AM

Palin's got more balls than most guys I know. I like her because she's tough and I don't think she'd be afraid to make some tough decisions given the opportunity. Ask me who I'd rather have, the person with less experience or the person with less discipline and I'll take the less experienced person each and every time.

DEATHSTAR

10-03-2008, 10:56 AM

Am I the only one who finds it delicious that tons of democrats seem to be so afraid of Palin that they feel the need to talk down about her every chance they get?

The same goes with Republicans about Obama. :D

Let's face it. Nobody's afraid of Biden. They'll make fun of stupid quotes that he makes, but that's about it. Biden won't be influencing the election at all. Palin can help/hurt McCain. People don't care who Obama's VP is.

I wouldn't say I'm worried about her but I will say that anyone seeking a high office who can't consistently display a cursory understanding of the country's government and world affairs when asked should raise an eyebrow at the very least.

If their ticket wins (which wouldn't surprise me in the least actually) then I'm going to apply for every CEO opening at every fortune 500 company next year. My resume will read "I have balls, that's all I need to run your company". If I don't get any of those jobs it will prove that the system is rigged. If we'll hire Rambo and Joe 6 Pack to run the country but won't hire the same types of guys to run the top businesses in the country it's rigged.

I'm actually okay with her not having experience, but combine that with not being able to show me that she understands some of the concepts of our government and yeah that's an odd mix.

And here's another thing that I'll throw out on experience. Unless you're running for a second presidency term, none of the candidates has experience leading the country. They all have some experience leading smaller groups which makes the experience point moot for all candidates in my book even before Palin came on the scene. They all need to let that one go.

Darc Requiem

10-03-2008, 11:00 AM

I agree with you on the experience angle, Deathstar. None of them have experience as President and neither Obama, McCain, nor Biden have executive experience.

SpaceOddity

10-03-2008, 11:08 AM

Its not her experience level that bothers me, its her intelligence "gosh darn it"

see what i did there?

yeah she's ****ing dumb. if only she had actually answered a question i couldve given her any credit, w/e i dont really care in the end, but the idea of president palin is far more horrifying than the idea of either president mccain or obama. *shudders*

Tanooki

10-03-2008, 11:24 AM

Goddamn deathstar not only are you funny with the CEO stuff (that's inspired) but that had some refreshing err 'truthiness' to it. :D Seriously, none of the have experience with the presidency so it is kind of comical. The odd thing is really that the two guys over 60 are the only ones with long standing defendable and admirable experience and service that would qualify them for the job. The other youngsters aren't slouches and they've served well and served their constituents quite well.

I have to be honest here on this...you surprised me with your (wouldn't surprise me if they did win) line there referring to McCain/Palin. I'm not so much surprised you'd say it in general, but just given the facts and history too as the deck is stacked against the RNC. In any regular election year that the economy has been in the ****ter people run to the democrats. Personally I find sadly some credence in the current Rasmussen poll showing a 2/3 chance of the Obama ticket winning over them at this point, but you never know with a month to go. Let's say the bail out gets it today on the house and within hours (by dinner time) Bush signs it...the stock market in after hours and weekend e-trading will explode, foreign markets so cancerously tied to ours will reflect it first in Asian areas Sunday mid-day for us. The memory of that will fade and it'll come back to the original issues on the table for the other 2 debates and month to go.

IF this plays out in such a way I'd increase the odds to 50/50 at this rate as both have good issues and strong positions to work off of. Fact is the DNC has soured their lovey dovey position of Bush hatred that worked in 06. They pissed away two years trying to be very partisan, passing hollow referendums to make a stand, tanking good legistlation, and never trying to work with Bush on a damn thing so that he can get stuff he wants in part, and them equally in part too. To the average dolt...it was a do nothing congress for 2 years and with idiots like Dodd and in particular Rep Frank ignoring the Fannie and Freddie cratering destroys a lot of confidence too.

It's all IFs I'm throwing out there though, and now that with that debate Palin took herself off the table as brainless and a stumbler it should hopefully just come back down to issues and then it's any mans(or woman's) game. Fact is McCain outlasted his 'bump' and was gaining slightly per day up until the Paulson opened his stupid fear mongering trap and the markets tanked...so he in theory still could come back, but I'm still thinking it's going to be a happy moment for the DNC this year.

Z.E.I.D.A.N

10-03-2008, 11:40 AM

Wow, am I late for this. Here's what I thought:

Biden made the case for Obama, and did it well. He stayed on the offense, and played defense very well when he needed to. He's a very skilled debater, but he obviously held back throughout most of it, which was good. Joe Biden is my favorite politician in Washington, and I'd feel most comfortable having him as my president any of the other candidates, but I didn't have much faith in him before this debate to stay disciplined without putting his foot in his mouth. But this was probably the strongest debate performance he's ever done; he answered questions concisely, he played offense and defense well, he came off as a gentleman but didn't let her steer the conversation, he showed passion and emotion when talking about his family tragedy, and didn't come off as fake or too political in the process. Palin was folksy, but she did shatter expectations held by the media. If Sarah Palin stayed and answered questions and looked confident, then people will say that she did well, and in that regard, she did. But on an objective level, she was awful. She didn't answer the questions given, which was disrespectful. It was obvious that she had talking points on hand, because she was reciting those talking points in order of what was written instead of actually answering the questions. She spoke in slogans and buzzwords, she came off as fake at times, and steered away from anything specific throughout. However, she had confidence and carried herself well, which was a plus. Sarah Palin needed to make the case not for John McCain, but for Sarah Palin herself. And she did redeem herself fairly well, but she failed in defending John McCain from Joe Biden's attacks.

Basically, Sarah Palin helped her image a little bit, but this wasn't the game changer I was fearing. Joe Biden showed that he'll be a valuable asset in the White House, but again, this debate didn't change anything substantial.

LOL Moments - whenever Palin spewed the usual Republican lies and Joe Biden would try to hold back from laughing. Good times.

DEATHSTAR

10-03-2008, 12:02 PM

If there's one thing that I learned over the last two elections it is, the Republicans have successfully proven that they know how to win elections even with a bad hand dealt.

Second, Al Gore was never president. I'll leave that right there, there was a ton of things that can be factored into that good and bad but just think about that point unfiltered.

So we have a couple of X factors that no one will ever be able to quantify. That's why a loss by the DNC wouldn't shock me all that much, even when on paper it's their race to lose this year.

Smokey

10-03-2008, 01:11 PM

I agree with you on the experience angle, Deathstar. None of them have experience as President and neither Obama, McCain, nor Biden have executive experience.

That and Palin's executive "experience" was gained in Alaska. That doesn't put her very far ahead of anyone.

BTW, I checked that transcript. I can't believe I missed Biden's response to McCain's healthcare plan, "The Ultimate Bridge to Nowhere", since that was the funniest part of the debate to me.

Tanooki

10-03-2008, 02:22 PM

LOL Moments - whenever Palin spewed the usual Republican lies and Joe Biden would try to hold back from laughing. Good times.

One could easily 180 that because Biden factually spewed an equal level of half truths and lies touting the usual Democrat lies and Palin would just counteract that with folksy talk and holding back not going too overboard with it. Good times indeed.

MR EPIC

10-03-2008, 02:54 PM

I actually felt bad for Biden quite a few times last night. He made so many verbal mistakes and mispronunciations you could tell that the guy is getting old. Palin had the funniest mispronunciation if you guys didn't catch it, she said "Senator Obama and Senator Obiden" and I was like "Obiden OMGLOL".

SpaceOddity

10-03-2008, 05:03 PM

^LMAO I caught that too and thought wtf is he real irish now?

Regardless she could never have won the debate, foreign policy is biden's ****, regardless of how i feel about him I give him that

Tanooki

10-03-2008, 06:43 PM

I found the Obiden thing a laugh, though I do equally have to wonder if it was a gag or a gaffe. It likely was a screw up, but you could just be equally saying with that they're both the same and clutching to old style politics or something.

And you're right on foreign policy Biden knows his crap, but 35 years will do that in the same job. Think back seriously...that's 1973. During that time he has seen the dying days of Nixon, Ford, that boob Carter, Reagan, two Bush's, and Clinton not to mention a few good flops of power between sides in the congress/senate, and many pivotal battles from wars, civil rights, etc all played out. People say McCain has a lot of years in there too, but Biden has a decade on him in that respect. :D

Darc Requiem

10-03-2008, 07:50 PM

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/41792/original.jpg

Z.E.I.D.A.N

10-03-2008, 08:23 PM

Lmao

Smokey

10-04-2008, 12:14 AM

"Flow chart"? That's a misnomer if I ever saw one.:P

Nismo

10-04-2008, 12:30 AM

Love the Obama ads here, when did KOMBO go political? Kind of out of place if you don't mind me saying.

Smokey

10-04-2008, 12:50 AM

Well, there are McCain ads, too.

Nismo

10-04-2008, 12:52 AM

Whoops I meant McCain ads bashing Obama. My bad, I just keep seeing that angered face every 5 seconds.

Smokey

10-04-2008, 01:05 AM

Oh yeah, I know what you're talking about. Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen any pro-Obama ads on Kombo. I'm not surprised in the least, considering the stances of the owners, but still...

DEATHSTAR

10-04-2008, 09:21 AM

Darc that was funny as hell!

Tanooki

10-04-2008, 12:33 PM

Well as Smokey said considering the site owners of course you're not going to get any friendly Obama ads here as they're Republicans, or at the least moderates but dislike his politics. I guess you either put up with it for another month or leave really unless you can install an ad blocker like I have because I had no idea there were political ads here.

Darc Requiem

10-04-2008, 02:51 PM

Darc that was funny as hell!

I can't take credit for it. My friend Jason called me last night and asked me if I watched the debates. I told him yeah and he said there is something you will find hilarious. So I had to share it.

Smokey

10-04-2008, 03:02 PM

Tell Jason that I love him.

OMG ZEIDAN NOT U WFT

Hottotty

10-04-2008, 04:34 PM

All I heard was: I wanna give a shout out to my homies in the third grade! Sup, peeps! Also to my son who's gonna go fight WAR, just know that we on Main Street are sitting around our kitchen tables right now talking about how awesome you are. Also, my dad's in the audience. Isn't that neat? And to all your dead wives, I wanna just say your gift is up in heaven.

Now, back on topic: The war in Afghanistan can be won easily. When I'm Vice President, I will be all for drilling in Alaska, so long as no one drills in Alaska because we don't want to hurt the natural beauty. There's so much gas in Alaska, it's like, totally nuts! It's an all of the above approach, people.

Now, back on topic: The economic crisis can be won easily. When I'm Vice President, I will be all for drilling in Alaska, because schools are our futures. My uncle Bob was a school teacher, and I went to school to learn. There's so much gas in Alaska, it's like, totally nuts!

Ah, straight talk. Thanks, Sarah!

Lizzaroni

10-04-2008, 04:35 PM

Tanooki

10-04-2008, 05:02 PM

That's possible. I suppose it depends how the ads are setup. If they're put in where they have underlying code to fish for stuff to cycle in then yes. Ads in general though a site owner will pay for in a bundle from a source and then whatever gets cycled in does under that deal.

Rensa

10-04-2008, 05:33 PM

Liz is probably on the money there. The ads (including the flash-based banner one) are coming from Google AdSense, which means they're contextual.
AdSense for content automatically crawls the content of your pages and delivers ads (you can choose both text or image ads) that are relevant to your audience and your site content—ads so well-matched, in fact, that your readers will actually find them useful.

DEATHSTAR

10-04-2008, 06:03 PM

Liz is probably on the money there. The ads (including the flash-based banner one) are coming from Google AdSense, which means they're contextual.

This is true. I work for a website(s) and in addition to the listings on our site I (we) sell banner ads on our listing pages, they can be configured to run in a multitude of contexts down to your (the end viewers) geographic location.

Smokey

10-04-2008, 07:41 PM

Way to derail the thread, guys. You're all terrible.:P

All I heard was: I wanna give a shout out to my homies in the third grade! Sup, peeps! Also to my son who's gonna go fight WAR, just know that we on Main Street are sitting around our kitchen tables right now talking about how awesome you are. Also, my dad's in the audience. Isn't that neat? And to all your dead wives, I wanna just say your gift is up in heaven.

Now, back on topic: The war in Afghanistan can be won easily. When I'm Vice President, I will be all for drilling in Alaska, so long as no one drills in Alaska because we don't want to hurt the natural beauty. There's so much gas in Alaska, it's like, totally nuts! It's an all of the above approach, people.

Now, back on topic: The economic crisis can be won easily. When I'm Vice President, I will be all for drilling in Alaska, because schools are our futures. My uncle Bob was a school teacher, and I went to school to learn. There's so much gas in Alaska, it's like, totally nuts!

Ah, straight talk. Thanks, Sarah!

Don't forget her team of mavericks and Joe Six-pack and his troop of hockey moms.

Nismo

10-04-2008, 08:40 PM

Man, I hope I get extra credit for watching that debate.

Sascha-AMN

10-05-2008, 02:24 AM

Tina Fey is on a roll with this Palin schtick. She may vote democrat, but I bet she secretly hopes Mccain wins so she can play off 4-years worth of material.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/04/tina-fey-as-sarah-palin-i_n_131964.html

For the record, I only posted that link because NBC yanks all of the SNL skits off youtube. I don't read the huffington post and I LOATHE the woman herself.

Smokey

10-05-2008, 04:27 PM

There was a comic in my local paper a couple of days ago where a McCain adviser told McCain that there was a strong push for him to get rid of Palin. McCain then wondered how he will keep the conservative base happy if he did that. The next picture showed McCain knocking on a door with Tina Fey's name on it.

http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/1/30/atfirstiwuzl128461918594218750.jpg

MR EPIC

10-05-2008, 06:44 PM

McCain has to become President for the simple fact that Frank Caliendo simply can't do an impression of Obama. He's already started doing McCain impressions on TNT and while not quite as funny as his Bush ones, they're still good.

Tanooki

10-05-2008, 06:48 PM

Hmm that is a valid point, at least I'll take your word on as I haven't seen him do McCain yet.

Coral

10-06-2008, 01:02 AM

The bitch kills animals.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_e5PxXtc9VM&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_e5PxXtc9VM&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Lovebird

10-06-2008, 10:53 AM

She's in Clearwater right now, giving some speech or some bull****.

On my way to work this morning, and still right now, there were/are cops all over downtown Clearwater. It's being held right around the corner from my work, so this morning when I pulled up at 4:00 am, my parking lot had a bunch of SUVs and cops.

Dudes in her motorcade or whatever you want to call it were getting gas and coffee, so I gave them free coffee and wished them good luck. I suppose they were on their way to either the event or some hotel, I don't know, she herself did not get out, which is either fortunate or unfortunate, I'm not sure. The guy who appeared to be the alpha-douche told me I had a nice store and thanked me for the coffee, then asked if I was supporting the governor, I told him not a chance. He frowned, said I'm sorry to hear that and hope you change your mind.

I guess cause there were no news teams around, there was no need for her to get out and sway ordinary folk like myself (not that she could, anyway). Perhaps she saw my Nader-Gonzalez 08 bumper sticker and got scared, who knows?

Either way, I figured it was worth mentioning.

After they all left, one of my regulars who buys a blunt every hour on the hour was like "Yoooo is that the bitch that's running for president and ****? She's banging for an old broad!" I EL-OH-EL'd.