$700 billioin dollar economic bailout? FAIL!

[Hottotty]

http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/fail-owned-carwash-sign-fail.jpg

Democrats voted, about 60% yes. Republicans voted, about 30% yes.

Who's at fault? Who's to blame? Will the madness never end? Discuss!

[Lucas]

It's disgusting, really. I don't care what provisions they got in this bill. All it's going to do is stall Wall Street and the economy's demise. Bush knows this. Congress knows this. Until we fix the root problems of this all (the lack of any kind of regulation whatsoever), it's just going to happen again in the future, and we all know Bush's view of regulation.

This isn't going to turn the economy around, and it isn't going to help all the stupid people who bought up those sub-prime mortgages. It's a temporary prop-up for a failed system. All this bailout does is help the Wall Street companies that created this mess and make sure that the next president has their hands so financially tied that they can't do anything for their first term. I guess that's Bush's last power play since he figures the odds are pretty high of a Democrat getting in office and undoing all his work. This monster bill to the private sector (aside from driving this nation closer to socialism than anything before) makes sure the next president can't really do anything outside legislate.

And there goes our national health care plan..right down Wall Street's pocket. If private industry fu*ks up, it should fail. Period, and consequences be damned. People need to see what greed gets them. But by not letting it happen, all Washington has done is tell the big boys upstairs that they can continue their past behavior and when things get too bad, taxpayers will bail them out. Privatize the profits, socialize the losses. Screw the fundamentals of the economy. The fundamentals of this nation just took a knife to the gut.

*edit*

Ouch. Looks like I just got my wish. The House failed to pass the bill, and now the DOW just plummeted 700 points. I tip my hat to the real conservatives in congress who kept America form unloading Wall Street's debt, even though most of them (on both sides of the isle) only declined to vote since it was so close to an election). It may hurt in the short term, but at least the fundamentals of our nation have been preserved...for now.

2009 is going to be a rough year. Welcome to the neo-depression folks.

[Smokey]

I think something needs to be done, if only to stave off the inevitable so we have time to fix things. I don't know if $700 billion bailouts are the way to do it, though.

[Hottotty]

Does anyone know the specifics of this "package"? Or was it just money earmarked that they'd divvy up later?

I have to admit I have no idea how the money was to be spent.

[Lucas]

Very few did. That was the point. Too much control from too few people over too much money.

I know a way to fix this. Throw Bush out on his ass. I pray the nation can hold together long enough for us to get rid of that bastard who ruined America.

[JValone]

I'm actually surprised the Republicans voted it down. It seemed to be very friendly to executives, it isn't called the "bailout" for nothing, and they're always getting slammed for giving those guys special treatment. On the flip side the Democrats claim they don't want to put even more power into the hands of a smaller number of people yet that's exactly what this proposed bill was going to do. Even an "oversight" committee wasn't really going to accomplish anything. I know they would get their sweeping regulations but it doesn't seem like enough of a trade off to get them to bite.

And Lucas, everybody's to blame for this not just Bush. I'm not gonna defend the man but he was just one piece of a poorly constructed machine. The Clinton administration's push for lower minimum requirements for a mortgage didn't help one bit either, we ended up with a ton of people who had no business buying the houses that they did who are now out on the street. That coupled with Bush's terrible policies will put a good number of those that consistently have paid their bills in the same situation. If either side plays the blame game they're either fools or liars, everyone blew it and no one had the foresight to call it in advance.

[Coral]

http://img.perezhilton.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/wenn5192581__oPt.jpg

[MAX]

god he's looking oooold.

[Vinny-AMN]

Throwing Bush out won't do a damn thing. I really think it is pathetic that people blame Bush. He isn't to blame. Also remember that we voted him in there. It is more our fault than his.

The people of America caused this problem, not our people elected leader.

[Tanooki]

Amen Vinny. Bush didn't cause this, but his idiot treasury secretary didn't do anything until it's too late, and some of his policies sucked too. As JV said Clinton gets fair blame for those looser regulations on home buying to where people who shouldn't got one anyway. But fair game could be said that this really got rolling as a combo of the backlash of the dot.com bust and then idiots with the Fanny/Freddie housing debacle and stupid banks buying other banks bad loans basically and then stupid AIG insuring trash. Honestly EVERYONE is at fault. You have dumb republicans that de-regulated a little too damn bit much. Then you've had the idiots currently in office basically stalemating anything of value over the last 2 years and that moron Dodd (senate) and Frank (house) ignoring the housing issues instead of searching for a fix until it was too late.

As far as todays fail in the house...the Dems have a considerable majority. Keep that in mind when issuing blame because a large chunk of their own party thought it stunk. Initially less than 10 house republicans were for it, and then McCain sucked in around 90 of them to be in favor of it. When the bill hit the floor, the speaker denied the ability to do any speeches/debates on the matter and instead went off on a rant on blaming bush and the republicans parties incompetence and forcing this issue. If you catched that partisan crap on tv when you see the R's in their seats some look floored, others pissed, and obviously a few then decided to change their mind and vote away from it too along with some democrats.

Everyone is to blame on this for injecting bull**** politics, personal/political attacks, negligence, having ties to the housing issue and trying to ignore that, and more.

Personally if I didn't think we'd end up with soup and bread lines again I'd be for the bailout failing as banks deserve a beating for knowingly issuing crap loans they knew would never get paid off in some cases.

[Coral]

lolz @ Merica
http://img.perezhilton.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/wenn5189812__oPt.jpg

[virion]

i would give one of my testicles away for $700 billion.

[prime_timer]

i would give one of my testicles away for $700 billion.

It's not seven hundred billion, but Arizona State University will buy a testicle for fifty thousand bucks.

-off topic

But yeah, this **** isnt looking too hot. I'm genuinely ****ing frightened for how this is going to end.

[Lizzaroni]

It's good. The sky isn't falling, and even if it was, it would only be falling in the financial sector. This bailout would effectively take every negative effect felt in that sector and create a ripple effect throughout the entire economy (and make no mistake, all the ramifications of the irresponsible FR, bankers, and homeowners would still be felt on top of that.) And, by the way, it's not a depression. You've no idea how ignorant and Chicken Little it sounds to claim that.

OKokokokok back to LSAT prep.

[Smokey]

It's not seven hundred billion, but Arizona State University will buy a testicle for fifty thousand bucks.

-off topic

...Tax-free?

[Tanooki]

Honestly I think the 95 dems and well over 100 reps who shot this down probably really did the right thing in the end. Ultimately yah the market tanked some, but it doesn't even rank in the top 10 failures percentage wise to date. This bail out if it goes as is now would just cause more issues down the line. Ahh I'm not going into detail more but Liz has the right idea there.


Yah and that $50k, you serious? :D

[virion]

would they put a prosthetic ball in it's place?.. cuz if they do i'm signing on. especially if it was tax free. i'm sure you could write it off though.

[Tanooki]

Considering it's medical research material given to the school I believe you could, but then again you're taking money so I'm not positive as a freebie would be a tax write off donation.

[Z.E.I.D.A.N]

lol, the market dip today cost over a trillion dollars in stocks, which was more than the peak of this bailout would have cost. So... yeah.

[Hottotty]

^ WOAH. I didn't know that.

Well, there's irony for you.

[Rensa]

Stocks go back up though.



Eventually. ;)

[Hottotty]

Well that's kind of defeatist. With that attitude, no government would have any fun ever at the expense of its taxpayers.

[Tanooki]

Well they went up 485.21 during live trading that closed an hour ago, but the day before it did dip 777 in trading. It's still roughly 300 down, but that's still one hell of a comeback.

[JValone]

I think the market realized they had to fix their own problems and that encouraged the rise. Yesterday everyone thought the big band-aid was on the way so they could "encourage" Congress to get it done by showing just how bad things could get. That's just my conspiracy theory anyway.

Not saying the market isn't in a bad spot, it is, but I don't think it's out of the question that Wall Street might feign complete weakness to get some free money.

[Smokey]

Well, it wasn't all feigned. Wachovia's getting bought out by Citigroup because of this malarkey.

[virion]

^^ see there's still money in the market.

[Smokey]

True, but Wachovia was still a huge bank. It will still be a separate entity, I think, and it will still be based in Charlotte, but Citigroup is calling the shots now. Citigroup was a bigger bank than Wachovia, as I recall.

[Tanooki]

Valone that's no conspiracy that's disgustingly logical and well thought out in its obviousness. And smokey...they died not due to a lack of money persay, not real money at least in the sense of say a run on the bank as all that's well insured. The problem is that it's a combo of all those bad loans, and every damn fear monger out there catching wind someone has plenty of them all selling off their stocks like mad. National City the other day lost 2/3 of its stock value during the trading day. Side grudge, but that's one I hope does die and horribly as they're just pure evil to their standard banking customers.

My bank has already handled my old bank of Washington Mutual and picked up the remanents of old Bear Stearns too so they're riding well and high hopefully and not just putting on a cute show.

[Lizzaroni]

What the...? The drop was a REACTION to the bailout not passing, not an attempt to cause anything. Mere mention of the bailout distorts information.

[HGW XX/7]

I'll tell you what. You give me $700 Billion, and I'll go buy the country of Denmark.

Twice.

[Lucas]

I just don't want the biggest socialist in American history (Bush) fu*king us one last time to get his buddies some free cash and put a choke hold on the ambitions of the next administration. I can't wait until that bastard leaves office.

[Tanooki]

I can't wait until he's out too because I'm tired of all the overkill partisan cheapshot jokes. Some yah are quite fair but others just are there to be insulting and have only subjective merit and it just got old probably 4 years ago.

I do find it funny you call bush the biggest socialist, yet you're going for obama. :)

[virion]

I just don't want the biggest socialist in American history (Bush) fu*king us one last time

takes money to make money, baby.

[JValone]

What the...? The drop was a REACTION to the bailout not passing, not an attempt to cause anything. Mere mention of the bailout distorts information.

I realize that. I should have made myself clearer. I think that the drop not only could have been a bit feigned early on to boost the bill's chances, but I also wonder if there wasn't a bit of a temper tantrum effect when it failed. I watched the news yesterday and they interviewed a lot of irritated brokers who basically said "we need the money, give it to us now". I'm not saying that's definitely what happened, I just wonder about it a little, especially after we shot back up 400 pts today.

[Richard Sauce]

I just don't want the biggest socialist in American history (Bush)

Hardly.

You ever hear of Eugene V. Debbs?

In any case, in your first post in this thread you bemoaned the lack of regulation, as well as the probable loss of any chance of publicly funded healthcare, and yet you seem to also fall into the "SOCIALISMS IS EVILS!!11!1" camp. It makes me question what exactly your understanding of socialism is...

Not an attack, just a request for clarification.

[virion]

It makes me question what exactly your understanding of socialism is...

Not an attack, just a request for clarification.

bush spends other peoples money like a socialist. clarification, mkay.

^i wouldn't consider him a socialist. an opportunist. capitalist. good ol' southern boy. yes.

[Lucas]

There's a new version of the bailout floating around that adds a tax cut to the package. That's just great. Spend $700 billion the country doesn't have to get the CEO bailout pocket padding plan through, and then cut the nation's resource stream so we just sink deeper. They know we can't afford another tax cut. We couldn't afford Bush's. The deeper we get now, the more it's going to hurt later. That way, when Obama likely gets elected, the GOP can scream and throw fits that "He's A Tax Raiser!" when he inevitably has to raise the taxes back to where they were just so the nation doesn't go flat broke. Wonderful situation there Congress. Fu*king gorgeous.


I do find it funny you call bush the biggest socialist, yet you're going for obama. :)

I just don't want a 300 year old dinosaur with social views from the dark age in office with a creationist holy roller VP that wants to strip women's rights, internet equality, promote gay suppression, and is potentially the most dangerous person to get within a few delegate votes of the most powerful building in the world.

I don't agree with some of what Obama or Democrats in general offer, but since we are stuck with this sh*tty two party system with absolutely no middle ground (this election more than ever), I back the side that isn't (generally) run by crazy religious fundamentalists and is actually trying to help people.

[Richard Sauce]

bush spends other peoples money like a socialist. clarification, mkay.


I would disagree with that...

The man attempted to privatize Social Security, supported widespread deregulation in both the private and public sectors, among other things.

Up until this bailout bill, I'm not sure you could present a more free market friendly president outside of Reagan.

[virion]

You ever hear of Eugene V. Debbs?

interesting side note, dick, Timothy McVeigh was executed in Terre Haute, Indiana. our good old former presidential candidate and 'labor guy' Eugene Debbs was born there.

i know WAY TO MUCH about Timothy McVeigh.

[virion]

I would disagree with that...

sarcasm dick.. you didn't detect it.

[Richard Sauce]

i know WAY TO MUCH about Timothy McVeigh.

Well, everybody needs a hero....

....I guess.

sarcasm dick.. you didn't detect it.

Sorry, I'm used to using the dulcet tones of your voice to tell when you're being sarcastic....

[virion]

Sorry, I'm used to using the dulcet tones of your voice to tell when you're being sarcastic....

are you trying to seduce me?

[Richard Sauce]

are you trying to seduce me?

Sarcasm Virion, you didn't detect it... :)

[Lucas]

Allow me to clarify. There's good socialism. You know, the kind that helps people. The kind that keeps old, helpless folks from dying a slow death of starvation. There's the socialism that educates our kids. There's the socialism that polices our streets and puts out forest fires. And there's the kind of socialism that could keep our hospitals from telling your every day father of three that he has to die of cancer because his insurance decided his contribution to society wasn't worth the cost. The Canadians seem pretty happy with that kind of socialism from what I hear.

Then there's the socialism that gives rich CEO's a golden parachute to escape their poor business decisions and unrelenting greed. That's bad socialism.

[virion]

Sarcasm V, you didn't detect it...

if you're going to go out of your way to get a girl wet, you better finish the job.

and after taking another glance at your response.. i'm imagining you as natalie portman and me as V.. dammit! now i've went and stained myself.

[virion]

Allow me to clarify. There's good socialism. You know, the kind that helps people. The kind that keeps old, helpless folks from dying a slow death of starvation. There's the socialism that educates our kids. There's the socialism that polices our streets and puts out forest fires. And there's the kind of socialism that could keep our hospitals from telling your every day father of three that he has to die of cancer because his insurance decided his contribution to society wasn't worth the cost. The Canadians seem pretty happy with that kind of socialism from what I hear.

Then there's the socialism that gives rich CEO's a golden parachute to escape their poor business decisions and unrelenting greed. That's bad socialism.

the canadians also have long wait times for health care.

hitler had the best idea. take out the old ones. they're a drain on our society.

[HGW XX/7]

And then there's the socialism where they say you have an obligation to die, because you're a drain on your family and the government.

[Smokey]

Like they're trying to do in England.

[Lucas]

And then there's the socialism where they say you have an obligation to die, because you're a drain on your family and the government.

Like they're trying to do in England.

Eh? Elaborate, please.

[Smokey]

Liz posted a thread about it. I'll see if I can dig it up.

EDIT: Biggity bam. (http://forums.kombo.com/showthread.php?t=26166)

[Monkeylord]

Like they're trying to do in England.

Less of the "they" please.

[Lizzaroni]

Allow me to clarify. There's good socialism. You know, the kind that helps people. The kind that keeps old, helpless folks from dying a slow death of starvation. There's the socialism that educates our kids. There's the socialism that polices our streets and puts out forest fires. And there's the kind of socialism that could keep our hospitals from telling your every day father of three that he has to die of cancer because his insurance decided his contribution to society wasn't worth the cost. The Canadians seem pretty happy with that kind of socialism from what I hear.

Then there's the socialism that gives rich CEO's a golden parachute to escape their poor business decisions and unrelenting greed. That's bad socialism.
Yeah, guys. Like universal healthcare - I hope the government makes things like healthcare affordable for everyone the same way they made housing affordable for everyone :rolleyes:

[Tanooki]

I just don't want a 300 year old dinosaur with social views from the dark age in office with a creationist holy roller VP that wants to strip women's rights, internet equality, promote gay suppression, and is potentially the most dangerous person to get within a few delegate votes of the most powerful building in the world.

I don't agree with some of what Obama or Democrats in general offer, but since we are stuck with this sh*tty two party system with absolutely no middle ground (this election more than ever), I back the side that isn't (generally) run by crazy religious fundamentalists and is actually trying to help people.

Respectable there. I'm not anti-democrat either as Obama has some good qualities going into it, just less to my liking at the moment. I have to admit with as bad as this bailout is though odds are his most annoying things he wanted to hose us with he can't afford to do so that's a bonus if he wins it. I don't consider McCain a dino though, and while Palin is a holy roller her work to date shows she doesn't force it into the schools and law, and her other views are fine you listed or are probably thinking of. I'm not a fan of the internet equality stance that McCain has but it doesn't surprise me.

I'm hoping for a good show tomorrow, hoping the McCain campaign douchebags will stop keeping her bottled up and let her loose finally as with the convention and unveiling day over a month ago. :(


And on your other post Liz quoted, if you like Canada so much you could just move there because that stuff isn't as good as you're making it out to be. I think she made the point well with the housing comparison, because you know gov't does such a good job with large socialism type programs.

[Smokey]

Less of the "they" please.

Alright, "certain individuals" are attempting this. Better?

[Nismo]

Another version just passed...RETAKE = PASS!

[Z.E.I.D.A.N]

So now we wait for the House to vote. Hope they make the right decision this time, there's no reason to shut this one down.

[Lizzaroni]

They made the right decision last time. Finger's crossed for another rejection. Time to write my representative.

[HGW XX/7]

They made the right decision last time. Finger's crossed for another rejection. Time to write my representative.

Secondeded!

[Smokey]

I heard there was a new tax break in this version. Is this for the corporations and banks that screwed us in the first place? If so, I'm with Liz and Sean, but I still think something needs to be done.

[HGW XX/7]

Yeah, because taxes need to be cut when we give away money we don't have. >_<

Edit: And I don't CARE who the tax cut would be for, this thing shouldn't be happening anyway.

[virion]

Yeah, because taxes need to be cut when we give away money we don't have. >_<

takes money to make money, baby.

what he said.

[HGW XX/7]

Word.

[Darc Requiem]

I know it will cause further economic problems but I have serious problem with handing money over to the people that bungled this situation in the first place. Oversight or not, how are we supposed to trust them not screw up yet again. I'll feel bad for anyone caught in the collateral damage, hell that would probably include myself. Bailing them out just seems to be pushing off the inevitable. It would just feed their irresponsibility. It is hypocritical to say that people that took mortgages that they couldn't afford don't deserve help and then help out businessmen that made issued out those very loans.

[Smokey]

How about they take that $700 billion and dole it out to the people that are really being hurt by all this garbage? I was watching some local news, and there was a viral video segment that showed what could be done with money. With that much money, every person in South Dakota could get his own island in the Pacific. I know there's not that many people in South Dakota, but still...dayum.

[HGW XX/7]

OR how about they focus on getting our nation out of debt?


Just a thought.

[Smokey]

Nah, that would make sense. Can't have that.

[Darc Requiem]

Why would we do that Sean, I mean borrowing money from China helps our national security :rolleyes:

[virion]

Why would we do that Sean, I mean borrowing money from China helps our national security :rolleyes:

now all we need to do is outsource the US Mint to China and they'd be making our money too!

[Darc Requiem]

now all we need to do is outsource the US Mint to China and they'd be making our money too!

Oh they already are Virion. Any moment now there will be a news story about a currency recall due to potential lead poisioning ;)

[Smokey]

Thank God Bush is leaving. That's crazy enough that it just might happen.

Is anyone else annoyed that China can't seem to make anything right, yet we (by "we" I mean Wal-mart) continue to buy goods from them in such humongous amounts?

[HGW XX/7]

Thank God Bush is leaving. That's crazy enough that it just might happen.

Is anyone else annoyed that China can't seem to make anything right, yet we (by "we" I mean Wal-mart) continue to buy goods from them in such humongous amounts?

I know, just look at all the people buying Apple products.

[Lizzaroni]

I heard there was a new tax break in this version. Is this for the corporations and banks that screwed us in the first place? If so, I'm with Liz and Sean, but I still think something needs to be done.
Why? Why is there this incessant need to turn to the government to fix everything that's butthurt? Let's just get the correction over with, I say, and leave the government out of it before they **** **** up like they ALWAYS do (see: cushioning Frannie and Freddie, encouraging making housing affordable to people who obviously do not qualify for loans, etc etc.)

[Darc Requiem]

I say we hire Satoru Iwata to run our economy...

[MAX]

I say we send Liz to the white house as an advisor.

If you don't want pork (such as 6 million in tax breaks to children's wooden toy arrow producers) in your bailout bill, call your state rep and let them know.

[Smokey]

Why? Why is there this incessant need to turn to the government to fix everything that's butthurt?

Something to do with the government having the most resources, or...something...

[Tanooki]

How about not only no pork, but no bailout bill as it stands.

You want to fix the problem, if there has to be a large sum of cash going out, give it to those who are directly getting hosed by the stupid wall street system. Give it to the people and businesses that got financially raped so they can pay the bills as they'll reinvest it back into the system. Don't give it to government as it'll never by even a close shot all be accounted for.

[Lizzaroni]

Something to do with the government having the most resources, or...something...
They get those resources from us! Who do you think will foot the bill? Government can't create wealth, only redistribute it.

[virion]

They get those resources from us! Who do you think will foot the bill? Government can't create wealth, only redistribute it.

that's why we need to combine Government and large corporations.;)

[Smokey]

They get those resources from us! Who do you think will foot the bill? Government can't create wealth, only redistribute it.

I know where it comes from, but if we need those resources, who's going to provide them in a more efficient manner? One large entity or millions of tiny entities?

I was watching some C-SPAN before the debate, and I caught Kucinich giving a speech about this bailout bill and why it should be defeated. What he said really made sense. The parts that stood out to me were that Wall Street shouldn't be seeing any money from Congress, that money should instead be distributed amongst the people, if anyone. Also, the gov't should purchase mortgage-backed securities, and then sell them when there's actually a market for them. Finally, what really stood out in my mind is that we should nationalize the oil and natural gas companies, the same way we're doing with AIG and other companies. Kucinich just really put it in perspective for me.

[Tanooki]

So what you're saying is Kucinich agrees with me on the post I made 7:19pm my time last night eh?

[Lizzaroni]

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFail

[Hottotty]

haha Even for these boards, this has been a very colourful thread.

Liz can be my shugga momma any time she wants. I'm <3