McCain suspends campaign, Obama plans to continue

[MAX]

link (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/24/campaign.wrap/index.html)

NEW YORK (CNN) -- Republican presidential candidate John McCain announced Wednesday that he is suspending his campaign to return to Washington and focus on the "historic" crisis facing the U.S. economy.

The Arizona senator called on his Democratic rival, Barack Obama, to do the same. He also urged organizers of Friday's presidential debate at the University of Mississippi to postpone the event.

"I am calling on the president to convene a meeting with the leadership from both houses of Congress, including Senator Obama and myself," McCain told reporters in New York. "It is time for both parties to come together to solve this problem."

There was no immediate response from the Obama campaign.

McCain and his running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, were in New York to meet with world leaders at the United Nations. They had met with Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili and Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko.

"Senator, governor, I'm really honored to be here with you. I know you have a very important campaign to run," Saakashvili said. "Overall, I have to say I greatly appreciate the solidarity we felt from the American people."

Earlier, Palin met with Iraqi President Jalal Talabani.

Obama on Wednesday lashed out at the Bush administration and his opponent on the handling of the crisis on Wall Street as well as the $700 billion bailout plan by Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson.

Congress and the White House are trying to negotiate the details of what would be the most sweeping economic intervention by the government since the Great Depression. Bush has asked Congress to act quickly on the bailout proposal following news of failing financial institutions and frozen credit markets.

"The clock is ticking on this crisis. We have to act swiftly, but we also have to get it right," Obama said in Dunedin, Florida. "And that means everyone -- Republicans and Democrats, and the White House and Congress -- must work together to come up with a solution that protects American taxpayers and our economy without rewarding those whose greed helped get us into this problem in the first place."

Obama said it's unacceptable to expect the American people to "hand this administration or any administration a $700 billion check with no conditions and no oversight when a lack of oversight in Washington and on Wall Street is exactly what got us into this mess."

He said struggling homeowners must be taken care of in any economic recovery plan -- and that taxpayers should "not be spending one dime to reward the same Wall Street CEOs whose greed and irresponsibility got us into this mess."

He also hit McCain for switching from his stance as an advocate for market deregulation to a strong supporter of regulation since the Wall Street crisis became front-page news.

"He's suddenly a hard-charging populist," Obama said. "And that's all well and good, but I sure wish he was talking the same way over a year ago, when I introduced a bill that would've helped stop the multimillion-dollar bonus packages that CEOs grab on their way out the door."

McCain's bombshell comes as a new CNN "poll of polls" out of Virginia on Wednesday shows McCain with the slimmest of leads in a state that traditionally has been a safe bet for Republicans.

The latest polls could be a warning sign for McCain that he still has work to do to lock down certain states where previous GOP nominees had to spend little time or effort doing so.

In the new poll of polls, McCain holds a 1 percentage point lead over Obama (47 percent to 46 percent) in Virginia, while 7 percent remain undecided.

The poll of polls is an average of three recent surveys of the state -- MSNBC/Mason-Dixon (September 17-22), ARG (September 17-20) and ABC/The Washington Post (September 18-21). The poll of polls does not have a sampling error.



Blatant publicity stunt: "Oh look I'm so worried about America that I'm going to stop doing something that actually has a chance to put me in a position to actually make some real changes, and pretend that I can actually do something meaningful in the short amount of time leading up to the election." Of course the next line after "I'm 'suspending' my campaign" is "heh heh Barack better do it too!."

Thankfully, Obama isn't falling for it. It's a transparent political gimmick designed to get Obama to take his foot off Mccain's neck; tomorrow the McSame campaign will be whining that Obama is putting politics above country, which is almost certainly the point of this.

[Tanooki]

I find it not surprising in the least bit you'd call it a publicity stunt. Fact is the entire economy is broken, and these politicians need to be back in there doing their job instead of essentially publicly interviewing for another. Both of them were hired to be Senators for their respective states and it makes sense to step away from it just a few days and try and get a fix. This isn't just our economy but many of them in the world it is hosing over horribly. I suppose some selfish types on this wouldn't get that because you know personal political agendas are a bit more important eh?

Honestly I think it's a bad idea for McCain to be doing it if it's him alone because it just leaves the door wide open to gobble up a wider lead and get walked all over with zero responses coming back with the campaign frozen. It's likely political suicide, but if the old man feels doing the job he's already been hired for is more important, good for him, good for the DNC, bad for his party.

[Z.E.I.D.A.N]

A political stunt if I've ever seen one. If you want to suspend your campaign temporarily to work out this bailout fiasco, then fine, but there's absolutely no reason to delay a debate. Millions of people are tuning into that debate because they're scared and confused, and they DESERVE to hear what these candidates have to say about this matter... not to mention it's just two hours on a Friday evening, and not being there inevitably hurts your case as far as motivation to address supporters goes. Of course, my feeling about this is that McCain wants this issue (the economic crisis) to subside so that he can feel more comfortable arguing with Barack on the issues. If Obama says that he won't suspend his campaign, the Republicans will call him unpatriotic; if Obama does suspend his campaign, the crisis will probably get solved faster and McCain can bounce back with talk about foreign policy when that debate finally comes on. Whatever it is, this is still a stunt, and the debate must go on.

[MAX]

McCain misses 65% of his votes in the Senate and now he's suspending his campaign to work on it? He's only doing it to save face in light of all the bloodletting that his campaign has gone through this week, not to mention keep Palin away from the media a little longer (who, by the way, has given TWO interviews so far.) He missed 65% of all votes, he stays on the trail, he constantly flimflams on what should be done or whether it's deregulation's fault, then suddenly, it's two days before the big debate, he's down in the polls, and now. Now, not any point earlier, not any point based on logic or facts, he wants to stop.

[Tanooki]

I agree zeidan not showing up for the debate is infuriating. I've been wanting to hear those 2 go at it for many months now. I hope either McCain changes his mind, or the network delays the debate so the two of them can do it later as people deserve the information both can dish out. To me yes secondarily it is a stunt, but primarily it is something that all of our representatives in both sides of congress I think should be required to go to, hash out, and vote on it as this situation is beyond ugly, it's a global financial cluster****. As is both the campaigns are neck and neck in this and will probably be down to the line so as I said I think it's suicidal for him to be doing this entire freeze especially if Obama doesn't go along with it. I'd rather them both freeze, or both take 1/2 days or whatever working between the two making a speech or whatever and letting the campaigns and the VP nominees hash it out as they work to fix this.

[MAX]

Yeah, sure. "My campaign manager cashed a $15,000 check from Fannie May last month (and incidentally, I lied about it), my veep's favorable rating is cratering, and we're in a huge crisis manufactured by my own party and my party's biggest supporters, and I'm getting my ass kicked, so I'm going to suspend my campaign because after missing 65% of my votes, now I want to hash things out."

I really shouldn't underestimate the ignorance and stupidity of Joe Sixpack, if they are actually going to believe that this is only secondarily a stunt.... we need to send a search party out for peoples common sense.

[DEATHSTAR]

I gotta agree that this is a political delay of game play to stop the clock on the Economic debate. Couple that with the fact neither candidate is commander in chief or has significant influence on this bailout plan... Suspending your campaign looks more politically motivated than out of real concern for the American people.

If McCain and the Republican party were so concerned for the last 8 years they probably wouldn't have been pushing for all the deregulation (that they eventually got) that led to this mess.

This situation doesn't bode well for any Republican at this point and all the pleas and cried for bi-partisan cooperation amount to nothing more than trying to have it both ways and crocodile tears.

I just heard that the debate commission plans to move forward with the debate, Obama is moving forward with the debate, so it's on McCain to show up or risk an "empty chair" debate format which is made of nothing but lose for him. He pretty much has his hand forced at this point, be interesting to see what he does.

[Hottotty]

You gotta hand it to him. Obama's been quite the two-faced salesman this year, but even by his standards this stunt is smoooooooooooth.

I'm gonna miss McCain while he's "working". He's been so cute.

[MAX]

It's sad that (for me anyway) it's almost expected that any politician will have some level of two-facedness.

[DEATHSTAR]

It's sad that (for me anyway) it's almost expected that any politician will have some level of two-facedness.

Once again this is true as well. I take them all with a grain of salt and expect a level of "typical politician" in all of them.

[Z.E.I.D.A.N]

What's funny is that what he's defining as "working out the bailout issue" is basically him going to Capitol Hill to vote. Yes, to vote. He's not a part of any economic committee, he has no further influence. Barack Obama will vote too, so really, there's no excuse. There IS such a thing as multitasking; we didn't stop the Iraq War to determine who won the 2004 election, so this either shows that McCain can't handle two things at once (which I doubt), or he's just dicking around like he always does.

[Hottotty]

What's funny is that what he's defining as "working out the bailout issue" is basically him going to Capitol Hill to vote. Yes, to vote. He's not a part of any economic committee, he has no further influence. Barack Obama will vote too, so really, there's no excuse. There IS such a thing as multitasking; we didn't stop the Iraq War to determine who won the 2004 election, so this either shows that McCain can't handle two things at once (which I doubt), or he's just dicking around like he always does.

Obviously. But he's not doing it trick people like you. He's doing it to trick people who get tricked by this stuff. Like... idiots. Basically every undecided voter in the blue, yellow, and red states below:

http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/america.gif

[Lizzaroni]

Oh look I'm so worried about America that I'm going to stop doing something that actually has a chance to put me in a position to actually make some real changes,
The presidency was never meant to be so powerful, and if Congress would grow some nuts, maybe they could rein it back in.

EDIT: and it's not a publicity stunt so much as an attempt to avoid directing Obama directly (via the debates) and save face while doing so.

[MAX]

that will nevvvver happen

[Tanooki]

Never seen a chart use 5 colors before for the electoral voting. I know red is R, D is blue, and yellow usually is the toss ups. I know one thing is that KY votes well into the R area so that's why I'm asking.

Death you make some good points, but let's not be fooled here this isn't just the republicans fault. For the last 2 years where things have been cratering even worse you had Sen Dodd and Rep Frank who head up the committees that deal with these things just doing the sit and spin too. I also found it cute that max would bring up the whole Fannie Mae thing considering Obama is taking economic advice from 2 former heads/high ups of that entity that bailed with some very nice golden parachutes.

Zeidan obviously he's dicking around on a hell of a gamble. For the vast majority of swing voters and those who still have their minds to make up McCain is basically doing the poker move of 'all-in' on this one. If he can run in there and get some sort of bill on Bush's desk by the end of Friday, very worst, before the stock market opens next Monday he can play it off as the guy who came in, kept his promise, rallied the R-troops, and got that sucker signed 'saving the economy' and it's very transparent. Thing is, if they can't get that done, the market is going to after all this bs and doomsaying will drop likely sub-10000 level and he'll go out in a blaze of glory over it. The plus, McCain gets a very strong shot at the big job, the negative for him...he screws his shot and likely his senate seat straight to hell along with the ability for the republican party to see the WH again for another 8-12 years and at least that long for the congress(either side.)

[Lizzaroni]

that will nevvvver happen
Hail Caesar.

[MAX]

morituri te salutant

[Darc Requiem]

The presidency was never meant to be so powerful, and if Congress would grow some nuts, maybe they could rein it back in.

EDIT: and it's not a publicity stunt so much as an attempt to avoid directing Obama directly (via the debates) and save face while doing so.

Lady, I'm assuming Liz is the only one here ;), and gentlemen we have a winner.

[Z.E.I.D.A.N]

^ That's pretty much what Max and I have been saying, if you've noticed. He's obviously backing away from a debate because he knows this will be a hot button topic and he knows he can't win on this issue. But he's covering that fact with the claim that he's above politics and needs to march over to Washington and save the day. 1) He's clearly not above politics, because this move was purely political, 2) He won't have any real influence on whatever he claims to have influence on. Go figure.

[Darc Requiem]

Yeah but she did it in one line :D You two were wordier than John Kerry ;)

[Smokey]

It sounds nice that McCain is putting aside his personal ambition to help decide how to fix our economy, but ultimately I'd have to agree with the popular sentiment here in that this is a stalling technique. A pretty good one, IMO, but a stalling technique nonetheless.

[Coral]

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[Darc Requiem]

Interesting find Coral.

[MAX]

Mccain WILL be debating tonight. Unsurprising. Not showing up would have been political suicide.

[Z.E.I.D.A.N]

Make sure you guys watch the debate; I'm gonna make a poll about it after it's over :D

[Smokey]

When is it?

[Z.E.I.D.A.N]

9 pm EST

[MAX]

Make sure you guys watch the debate; I'm gonna make a poll about it after it's over :D

lol oh I'm watching it! Each question will feature a 5-minute back-and-forth period where the candidates can, as I understand it, talk any sort of trash they want to each other. This is a prime opportunity for McCain's infamous temper to rear its ugly head on national television. Also a prime opportunity for McCain to have a senior moment.

[Darc Requiem]

I am interested in the Palin/Biden debate. I didn't think she was going to do well against him to begin with. After her most recent interviews, I can't see her doing anything but getting steam rolled.

[Smokey]

Cool. Definitely tuning in for this.

[Hottotty]

I'll Youtube the highlights.

Watching two grown men lie and sling in five-minute bursts for a full debate is no fun at all.

[Coral]

http://img.perezhilton.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/bring-it-onnn__oPt.jpg

[Z.E.I.D.A.N]

I am interested in the Palin/Biden debate. I didn't think she was going to do well against him to begin with. After her most recent interviews, I can't see her doing anything but getting steam rolled.

As long as Biden doesn't pussy out from being himself (ie. a fantastic debater), then it should be pretty predictable.

[MAX]

This debate tonight is going to be hilarious. Obama has been preparing all week, while Mccain most likely has not. lol

[Tanooki]

Either way this should be fun. McCain got the setup set this way as it's basically in a town hall format, something he's been trying to get for much of the year with the guy with none so far. McCain claims he got 2 hours of prep in (like that'll help) and Obama had a few days in Florida to do his. McCain has some strong suits, tonights is one of his best, and well Obama not so much. This could even out and get interesting, especially considering you get 9min per block, and the last 5min of those blocks the candidates can just fire smack back and forth at each other until the buzzer to try and trap the other.

[MAX]

I disagree. McCain's put himself in a ****ty position, and he's given Obama a tailor-made zinger at the debates to open with. "First of all, glad you could make it, John." I think that McCain's going into the debate with an inherent disadvantage. In politics, the one thing worse than doing something stupid is reneging on said stupid thing. If he had skipped the debate and stayed in Washington, he might be able to say "oh, I was trying to fix things while Obama was grandstanding on national TV", but now he just looks like an impulsive hothead that can't make up his mind. Also, Obama spent all week preparing, while McCain's being rushed in from Washington, so will most likely be clearly disadvantaged during the 5 min blocks of free debate.

[JValone]

If Obama tries anything similar to "glad you could make it John" he's a moron. The Democrats' best advantage thus far has been the fact that McCain has look inept and Palin has appeared hostile. Obama/Biden need to appear calm and in control, if they do that I believe they win the election. I've seen too many Democrats online and in person recently getting excited about zingers and put-downs, if Obama falls into that line of thinking he's going to lose in November.

Personally I believe Biden is already blowing it. I thought he was a great choice initially, I liked him about as much as Obama in the primaries, but he comes off as incredibly pompous and self-righteous in his recent events. Sure the base will respond to that but the swing voters are just going to think he's a prick. Obama's greatest strength, imo, has always been that he is very direct and likable. He doesn't come off as a con-artist or a show-off and that's what has helped him find success. Obama needs to be himself, direct and honest about what he believes, and let McCain and Palin implode. If it becomes a mud-slinging contest the GOP will win hands down. Biden already appears to want that showdown, and I think he's an idiot for even considering it. I hope Obama reins him in dramatically in the coming weeks. Biden's approach thus far has been "We're right, so nyah nyah!" whereas Obama needs to be conveying a message of "This is what's best for our country, let's work together". Biden is way too stuck on party politics imo.

[Hottotty]

Obama's greatest strength, imo, has always been that he is very direct and likable. He doesn't come off as a con-artist or a show-off and that's what has helped him find success.

Really? He seems like a pretty slimey liar to me. Both do, but Obama is just classic car salesman. I don't buy his little parade for a minute. Hopefully I'm wrong, natch, but he seriously looks like a closet PHREAK.

[JValone]

If you read his second book you'll understand what I'm saying a bit better. It's difficult to really sell yourself to the entire country in little news snippets or debates because you have to be dramatic and attention-grabbing. "The Audacity of Hope" (yes, it is a pretentious title, but yes it is also an excellent read) lays out his philosophy on government much better than any of his public appearances. His basic idea is that Americans have lost faith in their elected officials, which is correct, and leadership needs to make them feel more involved so they actually get the sense that they matter which I also believe is correct. I could do without all the socialist programs but I think if the populace becomes motivated to take part in the process again that sort of thing will shake itself out.

The "direct" comment really stems from reading that book. It doesn't dance around very much, which was surprising. The "likable" is obviously based on his rock star status which I think is actually taking away from his positives to an extent through over-saturation.

[Lizzaroni]

You can't separate his 'socialist' programs from his political philosophy. The two (economics and politics) are intertwined.

[MAX]

I really don't see one zinger, basically calling Mccain out, as being all that detrimental to Obama's campaign. If there was some persistent mud slinging done by him, then yes, I can see that hurting him. One? Not so much.

[Lucas]

I'm not going to waste my evening getting into another brick wall flame war with Jeff, but I do know this much. This night is jam-packed. We've got a hell of a debate coming in an hour, and then Ralph Nader is going to be on Real Time with Bill Maher where he gets to bitch about being excluded (again). Fun times.

[JValone]

You can't separate his 'socialist' programs from his political philosophy. The two (economics and politics) are intertwined.

I agree. I just feel like with McCain the lethargy will become even worse. With Obama there is the possibility more people will become interested in the political process. In that case even if some of his policies don't work out as well as planned *hopefully* there will be a larger group that cares enough to consider alternatives. That's what I was trying to get at.

I realize that's grasping at straws, but that's where I am right now when it comes to my faith in the American public.

Max: "Lipstick on a pig" is proof, to me, that Obama absolutely has to stay away from anything remotely insulting. The media jumps all over it and it undermines his claim of working together for positive change.

[Z.E.I.D.A.N]

As long as Obama doesn't come off as condescending for beating on an old wrinkly geezer, he should attack him any way he can.

[MAX]

I'm not going to waste my evening getting into another brick wall flame war with Jeff, but I do know this much. This night is jam-packed. We've got a hell of a debate coming in an hour, and then Ralph Nader is going to be on Real Time with Bill Maher where he gets to bitch about being excluded (again). Fun times.

omg, this is off topic, but I was watching "The Stuff" the other night (early 1980's movie) and Ralph Nadar was name checked. I was like, whoa..dude's OLD.

Anyway, Jvalone, I can see where you're getting at, but the issue with that particular comment was because it was spun as sexist. If Obama calls Mccain out on his ****, and smacks him around a bit, without coming across as a dick.. then why not? I hardly think that will hurt him, as long as he does it tactfully. Obama needs to throw barbs, especially since Mccain will most likely be doing it. So, he can either not throw barbs, and stick to direct answers. Thus perpetuating the "democrats can't fight back" stereotype, and spend the next 3 weeks doing damage control when the media decides to replay the barbs Mccain throws out instead of the actual content of the debate. Or, he can put Mccain in his place by calling him out on all the lies and **** their campaign has been putting out in the media. I mean, he can throw insults and barbs in way that comes off well, or he can do it in a way that comes off badly. I expect, with his public speaking skills, he'll pull off the former. Which I'm hoping for. Sorry for the ramble, my pizza is here.

[Z.E.I.D.A.N]

The biggest issue that normal voters have with Obama (other than that he's black... racists) is that they don't think he's tough enough, which is a stigma associated with the entire Democratic party. Obama's been very tough on McCain for the past few weeks, and that's actually resonated with the voters who had doubts, as the polls have shown. So if Obama remains aloof and doesn't even trade barbs with McCain, that'll put him on constant defense and he just won't score political points. He needs to be tough on McCain, and he needs to refrain from being professorial like he has been in the past.

10 more minutes!

[Smokey]

Five more minutes. I'm going ahead and turning the TV on.

[MAX]

My pizza's here, I'm RET 2 GO! So funny.. I feel like I'm preparing for an awesome movie I just rented or something... the debate better not fail me.

[Hottotty]

I'm totally watching it.

I think Obama just said about McCain's Iran vote that he voted "Iranically", but he meant ironically. I lolled.

[Smokey]

I don't think Obama completely steamrolled McCain in this one, but I'm pretty sure we all know who came out on top in this debate. Can't wait 'til Oct 2.

[MR EPIC]

I don't think Obama completely steamrolled McCain in this one, but I'm pretty sure we all know who came out on top in this debate.

Surprisingly, it was senator McCain.

[Smokey]

What debate were you watching?

[MR EPIC]

The one where Obama suggested using nuclear energy as an alternative to off-shore drilling, yet won't support the holding, recycling, or storage of it. His stance on that issue was as unclear as Prime Timer's head after smokin' a bowl.

[Smokey]

And you're saying that McCain won because of that one issue? Have you considered that we may not be able to safely recycle nuclear energy? I say only "recycle" because that's the only issue that I heard regarding the use of nuclear energy.

[MR EPIC]

I'm not saying that at all Smokey. There were actually two or three different issues that I was disappointed Obama didn't take a very clear stance on. To be honest I don't believe that there was a clear-cut winner, but overall I felt that McCain gained momentum as the debate reached the second half. And specifically in terms of foreign policies and national defense, I walked away feeling that McCain just might be the better man to handle those issues.

[Tanooki]

That's because McCain has been in the game a lot longer and knows many of these individuals and their regions on a much better level of understanding on what works and not. Foreign policy, energy, national defense are his strengths. Obama has social programs and diplomacy on his side best of all. The two are quite different in their strengths.

[JValone]

I agree with Epic. CNN and MSNBC claim Obama won but that's to be expected. I think it was close, if anyone edged out a win it was McCain. He'll need more than that to win the election but it was shocking to me he didn't get crushed. Maybe my perspective was skewed because I had very high expectations for Obama and comparatively low expectations for McCain.

[MAX]

Mccain came off far too unprepared, so I have no idea why anyone thinks he came out ahead. I actually thought the whole thing was pretty...meh. However, I thought that Obama's answers were more likely to have a beginning, middle, and end that followed logically and actually had something to do with the question. Mccain had this weird problem of having answers of just being all over the place before coming to a conclusion that touched on the question asked.

[Smokey]

I'm not saying that at all Smokey. There were actually two or three different issues that I was disappointed Obama didn't take a very clear stance on. To be honest I don't believe that there was a clear-cut winner, but overall I felt that McCain gained momentum as the debate reached the second half. And specifically in terms of foreign policies and national defense, I walked away feeling that McCain just might be the better man to handle those issues.

I said it in Liz's thread, and I'll say it again. McCain's foreign policy concerning the Middle East is a ****ing joke. McCain thinks that by not talking to them, we're hurting them. Even Bush has realized that this is bull****. If Bush realizes that and McCain doesn't, he's more poorly equipped to run the nation than Bush is, and we all know how qualified Bush is. And I thought that Obama was remarkably clear in regards to his stances that concerned the questions. You will note that there was not a question regarding alternative energy. Certainly, the candidates mentioned it, but Obama answered the questions concisely and accurately, whereas McCain did not.

[MR EPIC]

Obama presented himself in a more prepared and professional manor, but for the first time during this entire campaign process I feel that McCain's experience, especially when it came to international issues, outweighed Obama's new direction and "fresh" approach. That is the best and only way to describe my personal feeling about tonight's debate.

That was in response to Max's post you damn spot jacker.

[MAX]

because ignoring countries will make them nicer

[Smokey]

Welcome to the twisted world I share with Reagan, haha.

Personally, I don't feel that way. McCain didn't so much tout his experience as he did say how much Reagan did things right and how Reagan's policies needed to make a comeback, which is utterly insane.

EDIT: Apparently I share this world with Max, as well.

[Tanooki]

Reagans policies worked great in his day, some of it could still now, but not all of it which is obvious. Great man for that decade simply put.

Ultimately in the end one thing I do realize is that either one of them gets in, it's not going to make that huge of a difference all thanks to the bank meltdown. Responsibly speaking both of them will have their hands tied when it comes to tax cuts or raising among other things because the money won't be there until those loans can come full circle and sold off by the gov't for a tidy profit years later.

[Smokey]

Reagan's policies did work. In the 80s. This is not the 80s. Few, if any, of Reagan's policies would work in the 21st century.

[MAX]

Was anyone annoyed by the overuse of appeals during the debates? Particularly by Mccain? Obama did it as well, but it was like Mccain's life depended on it. With all the references of comments that Petraeus, Kissinger, etc. apparently made to support their position. It was SO annoying. I don't know, I have take issue with appealing to people who aren't around to deny/verify stuff like that...

[Smokey]

The only one that really annoyed me was the ones made concerning Reagan. I don't think Kissinger was too bad, though McCain did **** that one up, but you're right about the ones concerning Petraeus.

[HGW XX/7]

I said it in Liz's thread, and I'll say it again. McCain's foreign policy concerning the Middle East is a ****ing joke. McCain thinks that by not talking to them, we're hurting them. Even Bush has realized that this is bull****. If Bush realizes that and McCain doesn't, he's more poorly equipped to run the nation than Bush is, and we all know how qualified Bush is. And I thought that Obama was remarkably clear in regards to his stances that concerned the questions. You will note that there was not a question regarding alternative energy. Certainly, the candidates mentioned it, but Obama answered the questions concisely and accurately, whereas McCain did not.

McCain said that the President shouldn't meet with them. He said other reps of the government meeting with them is fine. He's not saying just don't talk to them in any form.

Sorry, just had to clarify that little bit there.

[Smokey]

He IS saying that there should be no meetings on ANY level without preconditions, though.