Games made for the wrong systems

[Coral]

Which games do you feel should have not come out on the system it came out on, and would have done better on another platform, or actually would have been a better game if made on a different platform?




The first one that I think of is Disaster: Day of Crisis

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/9/2008/09/custom_1221400681979_d2-thumb.jpg

I dont believe that motion controls will make up for the much better looking the game would have been had this been developed on one of the other two next gen consoles. Im not simply talking about how pretty it looks ( although with a game like this, the more realistic the disasters look the more Id be absorbed in the world.*I dont think i worded that right*), but with destructible terrain, more characters on screen, bigger disasters, etc itd be a much better game.

[MR EPIC]

Halo 3: Would have been a much more immersive experience with motion controls, only found on the Wii.

[Coral]

Ocarina of Time would have been so much better on a CD on the Playstation.

[blokeymon]

Halo 3: Would have been a much more immersive experience with motion controls, only found on the Wii.

Could be said for any FPS. In fact, if I had my way, the Wii would be the ONLY console to allow FPS games on it.

Can't really think of any more....

[Coral]

Question to you both.

You guys feel that aiming with a wii remote is better than a Mouse or Joystick? Which games lead you to this conclusion if you do feel that way?

[blokeymon]

if I had my way, the Wii would be the ONLY console to allow FPS games on it.

Thats my answer.

EDIT: Oh, thought you meant in the console vs PC wars then. My bad.

Wiimote aiming is just EASIER. No need to microscopic touches of a stick to aim at something's head. No need to alter aiming speeds. No need to ALWAYS have to ****ing invert Y axis.

[Tanooki]

It was to them two, but you did ask anyways and with the thread it's valid so I have an answer.

You guys feel that aiming with a wii remote is better than a Mouse or Joystick?
I'd dare call them non-comparable. When it's not done by halfassers the Wii pointer setup with the nunchuk to move copies the concept of the keyboard and mouse quite well. While a keyboard and mouse in many cases can respond faster a couple Wii FPS's do allow some extreme tweaking of the bounding box and spin speed to negate that. Ultimately it comes down to comfort (not being better, but more used to) or if you prefer the ability to face one way and run while using the other hand to aim high and pop someone. The PC doesn't do this, you look where you aim and run in X direction, the Wii has you look and run in X direction but aim elsewhere to pop somebody which I feel is a bit more natural. I'd see it like if you're running down an alley, guy on 2nd floor is up there, you are facing forward and **** and eye up, aim the pistol and kill the bastard while still facing and running forward. Mouse keys has me run wher eI want, but pivots the entire screen up...never did like that entirely but got used to it.

Which games lead you to this conclusion if you do feel that way?
I really can't pinpoint either way outside of saying look to MOH Heroes 2 and Metroid Prime on how to run one way and shoot high/low in another vs whatever 3D shooter has been out there since say Quake. They're both basically equals but each having a slight possible different handling of style that ultimately work fantastically either way with some self made menu based customization on both formats.

[ReaganYouth]

I think Phantom Hourglass should have been a Wii game.

[Tanooki]

I think Phantom Hourglass should have not forced touch control nor had a lame dungeon you have to sail 10+min back to everytime some event happens to backtrack time and again. :D I think also it would have worked on Wii, or any other format other than DS.

[MR EPIC]

Let me say that I wasn't too serious about my Halo comment. I didn't think Coral was being genuine about his Disaster post but apparently he was. So originally I was just trying to irritate him as I know how much he loves Halo. :)

I'll post more later, but the first one that comes to mind would be Disgaea 3. It does not push the PS3 hardware at all and should be a $40 dollar PS2 game.

[JValone]

Metroid Prime 3 is the best argument for motion controls from a first person perspective. If you haven't played it yet Coral definitely check it out, even if you dislike the game itself you can at least see why some of us feel that pointing would benefit Halo and other 360 titles. Obviously the Wii couldn't do certain technical things either, but in a perfect world those games would have HD and pointer control.

And Hyrule Field could not stream on a CD, so OoT is automatically out. Epic actually made a good example, he wasn't just trying to incite anger in anyone.

Smash Bros. Brawl is the best example I can think of for a game that could have benefited from switching platforms simply because its online mode is atrocious at times. XBL would have rectified that and made it perhaps the greatest party game of all time. Brawl has already died down I believe in large part because without reliable online it's just a shinier Melee, a smooth online experience could have catapulted it to all-time greatness.

Kingdom Hearts is a good one as well. The Disney/FF dynamic would have sold well to Nintendo's base right from the start and if it were on Nintendo platforms primarily it opens the door for that whole universe to be added to the mix. Can you imagine the anticipation level and potential revenue for an FF/Disney/Nintendo mashup? It would the biggest event in the history of gaming.

[HGW XX/7]

NiGHTS Journey of Dreams... Should have been on the PS3 or XBOX 360. It didn't need the motion controls (they only hurt the control), and it wouldn't need a graphical upgrade. All it needs is a good joystick (and sadly the nunchuck, classic controller, and gamecube controllers all lack a joystick suited for NiGHTS).

Maybe it should have been a PS2 or even a PSP game? That would've worked much better.

Actually, PSP NiGHTS would dominate. It's the perfect game for that crappy nub.

[Coral]

Metroid Prime 3 is the best argument for motion controls from a first person perspective. If you haven't played it yet Coral definitely check it out, even if you dislike the game itself you can at least see why some of us feel that pointing would benefit Halo and other 360 titles. Obviously the Wii couldn't do certain technical things either, but in a perfect world those games would have HD and pointer control.


I dont think so. When Im playing a FPS on console or PC there are tiny movements I make that cannot be tracked with a wii remote. Playtime is also a big reason why the Wii control scheme isnt better. Playing a wii game where you have to point for an extended period of time tires my hand, and causes me to have to rest my hand on my lap while still pointing. That doesnt help my aiming.

I will try to give MP3 a chance one day, but from watching gameplay videos and being in chat while Mr Epic played through it, I know that you dont play a metroid game the same way you play other shooter. Because of lock on you dont have to constantly aim at specific point on a target. The enemies are also bigger on screen, and most fights are confined to a room.

If the goal is to rework current FPSs into the shooters you see on Wii that are slower paced, then maybe the next iteration of the Wii mote could create an overall better experience, but thats up in the air and wishful. If games like CoD4 , Halo 3, and Bioshock were capable of being completely ported to Wii they wouldnt control well.


Epic actually made a good example, he wasn't just trying to incite anger in anyone.

.

Naw he just didnt mean it.

[Smokey]

Kingdom Hearts is a good one as well. The Disney/FF dynamic would have sold well to Nintendo's base right from the start and if it were on Nintendo platforms primarily it opens the door for that whole universe to be added to the mix. Can you imagine the anticipation level and potential revenue for an FF/Disney/Nintendo mashup? It would the biggest event in the history of gaming.

This would be insane. I would kill for this kind of game.

I can't think of any other such games. I can think of a few that should have stayed on one console rather than migrate to another, but I think that's for another thread. I'll keep thinking on it though. Any damage I inflict on myself in the process will be on your heads.

[virion]

i can't be the only one that thought kingdom hearts was just an overrated button masher featuring a high profile cast.

[JValone]

I dont think so. When Im playing a FPS on console or PC there are tiny movements I make that cannot be tracked with a wii remote. Playtime is also a big reason why the Wii control scheme isnt better. Playing a wii game where you have to point for an extended period of time tires my hand, and causes me to have to rest my hand on my lap while still pointing. That doesnt help my aiming.

I will try to give MP3 a chance one day, but from watching gameplay videos and being in chat while Mr Epic played through it, I know that you dont play a metroid game the same way you play other shooter. Because of lock on you dont have to constantly aim at specific point on a target. The enemies are also bigger on screen, and most fights are confined to a room.

If the goal is to rework current FPSs into the shooters you see on Wii that are slower paced, then maybe the next iteration of the Wii mote could create an overall better experience, but thats up in the air and wishful. If games like CoD4 , Halo 3, and Bioshock were capable of being completely ported to Wii they wouldnt control well.


I think the Motion Plus attachment should help with that since it's expected to come standard in the second generation remote. From what I've read it helps tremendously so it might be a better fit for reflex-driven shooters. I think the Conduit will prove whether a standard FPS title can be done effectively on the platform. I'm not sure if it can or not, no one has ever really given it a shot.

[Smokey]

It may be a button masher, but **** me if it wasn't fun. The story was pretty cool, too.

[Coral]

I think the Motion Plus attachment should help with that since it's expected to come standard in the second generation remote. From what I've read it helps tremendously so it might be a better fit for reflex-driven shooters. I think the Conduit will prove whether a standard FPS title can be done effectively on the platform. I'm not sure if it can or not, no one has ever really given it a shot.

Im not against a new standard, but I dont see motion controls being the standard, nor done as well for quite some time.

I currently dont think too highly of the conduit, but we'll see. I believe that at best, itll be the equivalent of a mediocre PC or 360 shooter. Games like Timeshift, the Darkness, etc.


http://bizzlebros.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/vp.jpg
Would have sold a lot better as a Wii or PS2 game. That said, Viva Pinata is a very very pretty game, they would have to change the style of the game so it wouldnt look like a downgrade. :P THAT SAID(:/ am I using that right or too much), if it was a Wii or PS2 game to begin with there wouldnt be anything to compare it too.

[MR EPIC]

1. Kingdom Hearts was easily one of the top 20 games of last gen, IMO more like top 10.

2. Coral's right. There is no evidence as of yet that the Wii remote can do a traditional FPS better than analog sticks. At this point it's definitely not tight nor responsive enough to pull of some difficult to make long distance kills and/or head shots. Furthermore, MP3 could have been done just as well if not better with a traditional game-pad. The Wii remote also tends to fatigue your arm after prolonged periods of play time.

[Smokey]

Well, it has been my experience that using a Wiimote like a gun does make it seem a little more realistic, like you're using an actual gun, rather than a D-pad or a joystick. But you're right, sometimes it isn't as tight as it should be.

[Tanooki]

Well I think the evidence of MOH H2 and MP3 does say that the wii controller can do as nicely as the keys and mouse. By default perhaps/definitely not, but when on MOHH2 you can set the sensitivity and bounding box to such insanely touchy levels you can get that little jerk precision of a mouse as long as you can keep your hand still mind you.

[virion]

Well, it has been my experience that using a Wiimote like a gun does make it seem a little more realistic, like you're using an actual gun, rather than a D-pad or a joystick. But you're right, sometimes it isn't as tight as it should be.

this was called a 'light gun'..

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f199/virion9/800px-Nes_zapper.jpg

[cubeenigma]

Viva Pinata: should have been for the wii
sly cooper: should have been gamecube
jet set radio future: should have been gamecube..

yeah sorry nintendo bias

[Coral]

Im not so sure about jet set. The dreamcast and xbox just seem like relatives.

[thegamecubist]

Pretty much every game on PS2 should have been on Dreamcast (sheds tear)

I can't really think of anything...I'm not much of a "oh, this console has these games, so game X must be on it!" I like a little variety.

From a technical standpoint, GT5: Prolouge should be on 360. The online is atrocious. We have Forza, but I still have a soft spot for GT :)

[Tanooki]

I agree with cube on the first two, but not jet set. The inspirationally themed look of those games, just the feel seem more Nintendo-ish, but then again so does Daxter so far on PSP from what I've picked away at.

[JValone]

Im not so sure about jet set. The dreamcast and xbox just seem like relatives.

Only because Sega is retarded. Putting heavy support behind the Xbox, and the subsequent failure of every single one of those titles, was basically what forced Sega to disband their "team" structure and adopt a single identity. The move that killed their quality. It was obvious that the DC base moved to the PS2 and in smaller numbers to the GC, although strong sales of their GC titles suggest a lot of the Nintendo base was receptive to what they were making at the time. Any Sega title on Xbox should have been on PS2 or GC, either or, it doesn't matter, just obviously not on the Xbox where they all flopped.

[thegamecubist]

Well the reasoning behind it was because both the DC and Xbox were DirectX based consoles, so it was easy to port from on to the other. Obviously not a good business decision given the demographic but Sega was after a quick buck.

[MR EPIC]

I honestly looked at the original Xbox as an extension of Sega. With games like Sega GT, Panzer Dragoon Orta, and Jet Set Radio, I also thought they and MS should have come to some sort of agreement to keep Sega's games exclusively on their systems. It would have satisfied my "console personality" requirement and also would have shut people up who complained about MS consoles not being Japanese enough.

[Sascha-AMN]

I really don't accept the argument that the motion controls make first-person shooters better. This is coming from a guy that plays most of his FPSes on a PC, but has also been playing console shooters since Goldeneye (albeit only actually ENJOYING them since Halo). Motion control technology isn't at the point where it actually enhances the aiming. You can argue for immersion if you want, thats fairly subjective since different people are drawn into an experience by different elements of game design, but as far as the precision or ease of use of the controls, the jump just isn't there.

People compare using the wiimote to using a mouse a lot, but there is one major difference, and thats the fact that the wiimote tracks in 3d space, and moves in 3D space. Thats a huge boon for the wiimote and motion controllers in general once developers figure out how to use it significantly (ie, more than opening doors in MP3) and well (ie, not pushing the wiimote forward to zoom a sniper rifle, a la Red Steel). Right now its a weakness though, because combined with the Wii's still-early technology, it hurts the controller's precision. With a mouse, you're operating the device in 2D space and pushing down against a desk. The added friction and leverage helps you keep the device and by extension, the reticule on-screen steady even during incredibly fast, jerky movements. Likewise, the analog stick on a controller is anchored to the base, so you have something to work against to keep the reticule steady. The wiimote is held freely in the air, with only your arm to steady your-aim. That results in the now-patented effect of watching the reticule circle and figure-eight in the general vicinity of a target, never really achieving a tight-bead.

The Wii does have great accuracy though. That is, its very easy to move the reticule from the general vicinity of one target to the general vicinity of another. Its that last 1% of the equation, that final lock on that the wiimote is absolutely atrocious at, and its an irritation I don't have the patience to put up with. By comparison, analog sticks arent as accurate, it takes more effort for your thumb to bounce the reticule around the screen and bead in on moving targets, but once you do, that last %1 is easy. Analog sticks are more precise, but far less accurate than the Wiimote. The mouse is the best of both worlds. As the technology improves and the motion-sensing technology starts refreshing positional data at a faster rate, that will help. Player habits, like holding the butt of the wiimote against your knee to get an extra ounce of leverage also help, but not enough. Honestly the nature of the device may work against it for the rest of its existence, but then the aforementioned advantages of tracking and replicating motion in 3D space may eventually outweigh them. We'll see.



Wow, that was a lot more long-winded than I anticipated. Here are some games I think belong on other consoles:

Viva Pinata - Should have been on Wii. Self-explanatory really, being able to select Pinatas more easily and shoot through menus by pointing and clicking would have made the entire experience smoother. Plus, the colorful graphics and somewhat silly premise do give it a Nintendo-like flavor.

Twilight Princess - Should have been on PS3/360. Motion controls didnt add anything to game, if anything they just made controlling Link as a wolf more unintuitive. On the flip side, more graphical horsepower would have made the environments look a lot better, could have filled the cities with more NPCs to make the world feel more populated, could have made the game feel even more epic.

[MR EPIC]

Resistance 2, Socom 3 - Both games will be played heavily online and PSN is sub-par in that area. The 360 has a greater community and the majority of the users have headsets in which to communicate.

[cubeenigma]

another game that i just thought of would have been donkey kong on the genesis... BLAST PROCESSING!!!!!(just kidding funny though)

ape escape imo would have been good for a nintendo console

little big planet, aside from a tech standpoint, should have been a wii game with perfect controls and the perfect audience= SUCCESS, but alas :[ (HEY I CAN DREAM)

[Coral]

LBP would sell more on the Wii, but a ll the level editing and extra features would be out the window. Without that LBP is a very simplistic multiplayer platformer.

[Tanooki]

So the entire argument that the Wii controller isn't as good as a mouse and keyboard is chocked entirely up to personal feelings then. For those who like how the aim works and isn't some parkinsons patient it's fast and responsive to aim where you want, when you want, and can do some good damage. But, the trick is you have no surface to push against causing friction so it's something to get used to, much like aiming a real rifle or pistol. Ultimately both are quite precise and that WiiMotion will only increase that sensitivity too which 'The Conduit' should show off quite nicely when both are released. Sascha makes a nice argument but ultimately it does come down to his feelings and preference more than anything and this too is coming from someone who has done a lot of PC and Console FPSs since the early/mid 1990s.

[HGW XX/7]

^That's just the thing though. Light Guns in the arcade tend to be a lot more precise and intuitive than the wiimote. Maybe when motionplus comes out it'll be responsive enough for me, but as it is right now I'll take a standard controller or mouse anyday for shooters.

[MR EPIC]

Ape escape coming to Wii would have been an excellent idea. Also, I doubt as many people as you think are going to use the level editor and other features as much as you think Coral, so save your Nintendo hate for a more legitimate argument. :)

[Sascha-AMN]

/\

Meh, look at the PC community. If even a 10th of the people that buy the game are enthusiastic and talented at putting together levels, they'll more than be able to account for the rest of the people that purchase the games. LBP would be far less exciting without the level sharing feature, and its completely integrated intot he game's design.

So the entire argument that the Wii controller isn't as good as a mouse and keyboard is chocked entirely up to personal feelings then. For those who like how the aim works and isn't some parkinsons patient it's fast and responsive to aim where you want, when you want, and can do some good damage. But, the trick is you have no surface to push against causing friction so it's something to get used to, much like aiming a real rifle or pistol. Ultimately both are quite precise and that WiiMotion will only increase that sensitivity too which 'The Conduit' should show off quite nicely when both are released. Sascha makes a nice argument but ultimately it does come down to his feelings and preference more than anything and this too is coming from someone who has done a lot of PC and Console FPSs since the early/mid 1990s.

LOL, you hardly have to be a Parkinsans sufferer for the wiimote to be a twitchy, unwieldy pointing device. The technology is in its infancy, and at this point unsuitable for the more intense entries in the first person genre. Slower fare with simple AI routines (a la MP3) work well enough, but still fall well short of the best efforts on the PC and other consoles. You want to put the time and effort into 'getting used' to the device, go for it, Ill wait for the technology to catch up with the ambition. Poor HVG, The Conduit is going to get unfairly ripped apart when it fails to single-handedly raise the input device up from mediocrity.

[Tanooki]

Yes it's in the infancy but games like MOHH2 have so much sensitivity options you can get down a good level of comfortable per person precision to overcome issues. I think it's a really lame argument being lazy on not wanting to be 'getting used' to the device. Long ago we were playing DOOM, Heretic, Hexen, Duke Nukem 3D, etc and then Quake comes along using the mouse. This was new, I remember people talking both how cool it was, and how damn twitchy and hard it was getting used to aiming all over. People adapted and got used to it over time, and the same thing is true for the Wii controller. To try and push it off as ambition is a really weak double standard. Just because you don't want to get used to another control medium just like you did using a mouse and keyboard isn't a valid argument, it's laziness, stubbornness, or just no care to even bother trying. I can honestly say when I was tooling around with MOHH2 last year extensively I got VERY comfy with it to where I'd dare issue the challenge (if it were possible) to hand your ass to you using that and you on a mouse and keyboard enough to make it an even win/loss ratio between both us.

[MR EPIC]

I actually agree with Sascha on this one. A mouse rests on a mouse pad or on whatever flat surface you have it on, allowing you to steady your hand. A remote that you have to steady in the air or on your lap will not provide the same level of comfort or accuracy. I also feel bad for HVG, because as hard as they've worked on the Conduit, not the game itself nor the controls will likely be recognized as having achieved something parallel or better to the FPS experiences of the other two consoles.

[virion]

has anyone played trauma center for the wii.. great games but i have to lean to the side of my body that is holding the wii mote just to get it to be stable.

[Tanooki]

Honestly when I play the games I do of the FPS nature I just prop my elbow on my knee and I'm very steady so I can relate to that with Trauma Center.

[Hottotty]

Trauma Center blows.

Should have been on Virtual Boy.