Dragon Quest vs Final Fantasy - Fight!

[Tanooki]

So which do you feel is the better one now, historically whatever. Here's my take.

Historically speaking for me it has been Final Fantasy as it was my first console RPG, Dragon Warrior while free from NP mag I didn't get well into nearly the life of the SNES. To me FF has been more of the quicker game until the total stray from what FF was meant to be on the 7th release. The 'N' based FF titles have been great games, well crafted stories, smarter battle engines, and they were good 20-40 hour romps. Dragon Quest(Warrior) was very short on the 1st as I won it from my best friend as he bet me I couldn't do it in one afternoon (which I did in like 5hours or so.) Each DQ/W game after though has gone into the 40+ area pushing up into 100hours which I find huge distaste with because the DQ system never really changes and I personally can't focus on a game that long. I lose interest due to forgetting what happened dozens of hours earlier making me think 'Why did I bother?' DQ though these days while still long not all of it by far is required, the system is more fun because it's traditional, and the stories have definitely improved. FF though has strayed into boy band looking characters, whiny stories, overkill hours, very cryptic lame boss fights requiring exact skills and usage or you're hosed which is very bad, a disgusting buzzkill.

To me Square lost their way with FF and their Enix half has stayed on target. FF4 was fairly ruined on the DS with cryptic boss fights requiring exact gear and spells or you're dead, even some random thing in a zone now can off you in 2 hits that way which is disgusting. DQ though has always had the same level of challenge that ramps up but nothing outrageous and stupid, nor has it required you to use exact spells 2, 5, and 8 in your list every turn or you die no matter what and that I appreciate.

Historically FF was great, but these days the DQ franchise is where it's at now for honest good gameplay.

[MR EPIC]

Ooooh that's a toughy, especially from the historical perspective for me. Dragon Warrior 1 and 2 and Phantasy Star 1 and 2 were the only RPGs that I played and enjoyed back in my youth. I did not play, care for, or even pay attention to the FF series until X-2 came out and I bought it. And Dragon Quest 8 was my favorite RPG of the last generation, so even though I liked FF9 better as a video game I'm gonna have to say DQ if you take into consideration both past and present.

[Smokey]

I've never played any of the DQ titles, but from what I have seen of them, I still think FF is the better series. That may change once I give some of the DQ titles a play or two, but for now my opinion is that FF>DQ.

[virion]

i've given dragon quest the chance and i still believe Final Fantasy are much better. Dragon Quest 7 was terrible. it takes 3 hours to get into and the first 3 hours will make sure you don't get into it. Final Fantasy has been truly hit or miss since 7, though i believe that 8 was superior even with it's flaws (i.e. junction system). 9 is another game that people love to talk about, but for me the only thing that game had going was the battle system. FFX was a terrible game for the most part i think. especially with the ways enemies were set up. tanooki you talk about the boss fights and there being a specific way to fight them or you're dead. in FFX each area's enemies had to be killed by a specific person.. Flyers were only killed by wakka or lulu.. Tidus killed the regular enemies.. Auron took out the stronger ones.. every area was the same 3 types of enemies. FFX-2 was brilliant with it's battle system, particularly the speed and dress spheres. harkoning back to days of job classes in Final Fantasy Tactics.

over all, no Dragon Quest games are that memorable. there all really bland with basic battle systems that don't really evolve from each iteration before it. DQ 8 was very bland from what i've played and have seen others play. epic there are so many more rpgs from last generation that stand above DQ8.

[Tanooki]

I had heard complaints about DQ7 but not of 8 so I dunno as that one just seemed to get praise. I've only messed with 1-3 and just missed out on 4 until now which I'll nab next week. I've wanted a shot at 5 and 6, and while I know a local guy who can erase an existing SNES game and put it on there, I knew the DS stuff was coming so I ignored it waiting a bit longer. The only complaints I know of that DQ ever legitimately gets is that the games go on a bit long, the battle engine mostly stays the same (but that can be a plus easily too), and in general they require a bit more grinding but not much more than FF titles. DQ7 I understood to be an exception to that rule as it did some weird stuff like virion said with the three hours (too slow to get into) of going nowhere and getting you bored at the same time.

[MR EPIC]

Name them Virion.

[virion]

steambot chronicles.
shin megami tensei nocturne.
shin megami tensei digital devil saga 1 and 2.
shadow hearts.
shadow hearts covenant.
dark cloud.
dawn of mana.
devil summoner. raidou kuzunoha 14th vs. the soulless army.
grandia 3.
suikoden 5.
tales of the abyss.
rogue galaxy.
xenosaga episode 1.

[blokeymon]

Sony's very own LEGEND OF DRAGOON forces Final Fantasy to suck on its oversized and powerful wang, while Dragon Quest cups its balls.

And that's coming from someone who has a Cloud tattoo and a kid named Zack.

Mind you, saying that, LEGEND OF DRAGOON is the ever faithful and subservient bitch to the original Wild ARMs.


But out of FF and DQ? FF, obviously. Just cos I never played a DQ I liked.

[Coral]

Ff


.

[MR EPIC]

Virion - NONE of those games were even close to Dragon Quest 8. That game had the best voice acting in eons, great characters, deep storyline and deep gameplay allowing you to create weapons or buy them at a high price. Turn-based battle systems are still the best and this one was flawless and had very creative enemies to go with it. Plus it had a very good soundtrack to boot.

[Coral]

Dragon Quest 8.7

:) Hi

[MR EPIC]

Dragon Quest 8

1up = 9.5
IGN = 9.0
Gamespot = 9.0
Famitsu = 10/10/10/9
G4 = 10
Play Magazine = 10

Again, Dragon Quest 8 was not only my favorite RPG of last gen, but also the best RPG of any console. Thank you for coming now don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

[virion]

epic have you played devil summoner or the digital devil sagas?.. also steambot chronicles is light years ahead in being fun than dragon quest 8 was. now i might agree that not all of those titles i listed were way better.. but all of them are on par with DQ8. plus i omitted alot of the more known titles such as final fantasy.

[Tanooki]

I hate to do this to you because well I think FF FF excluded has been fairly god awful since the 6th, but the last gen competition from the FF camp, that 10 with the boyband looks, ok story, but really crap sphere system got it's ass kissed more by the stronger American leaning FF fanboy pool as DQ is a bigger wonder overseas.

FF10 ranked a bit higher overall looking at gamerankings.com's averages, but just very marginally. I suppose it could be a factor that FF10 had a few less reviews though than DQ8 did, but it's also interesting that FF10 only ranked higher if you check the meat of it with a large swath of 100% ratings which had a lot of goo-goo ga ga crap over the visuals and spoken in game text. I'm sorry but to me that's not much of an accomplishment over gameplay, story, and general mechanics. :)

[MR EPIC]

I played Nocture and Digital Devil Saga both. Original games but also a bit weird and gross. They don't have the level of "fun" that DQ8 had. I wouldn't make such a stand if I didn't believe that game was the complete package. The great voice acting made for some hilarious parts in DQ. Also, I think it's better than any of the FFs too, as most here will agree that the last proper FF was FF9. X-2 was good but not like DQ.

[JValone]

This is FF by a landslide, anyone who votes otherwise is obviously putting a single game over an entire franchise track record. DQ 1-7 are some of the worst examples of sticking to a dogmatic formula to a fault. DQ8 obviously fixed a lot of those deficiencies but it doesn't make up for the fact that FF I-X absolutely destroy DQ 1-7 in every aspect.

FF owns the best individual game (FFIX) and I'd say the top 5 games (FFIX, FFVI, FFVII, FFIV, FFX) in this comparison and DQ8 is the only one in its series I'd consider in that league so obviously FF gets my vote.

[ReaganYouth]

If we're talking old school, then FF wins. But today, Final Fantasy is a watered down parody of it's former self. DQ all the way.

[blokeymon]

most here will agree that the last proper FF was FF9.

Yes.

[virion]

If we're talking old school, then FF wins. But today, Final Fantasy is a watered down parody of it's former self. DQ all the way.

final fantasy has redeemed itself with X-2 and XII.

and on a side note.. Final Fantasy 9 was pathetic. Final Fantasy 9 was made for nostalgia.. 'oh we've seen to have gotten off track with 7 and 8, so let's return to the roots. with more airships and stupid fantasy characters and childishness. that would rock.' and that's why the shin megami series is better than final fantasy anyday. Final Fantasy 6, 7, 8, tactics, X-2, and XII are the best games in the series. and everyone wants to bitch about the junction system in 8. besides that it is the most engrossing story in the series. which in turn makes up for it's flawed battle system.

[JValone]

Did you even seriously play FFIX or did you just check some screen shots and deem it pathetic? FFIX featured some of the most memorable characters in the series and their personal development was handled far better than in any FF with the possible exception of VI. The battle system brought back the concept of characters having individual talents but it added depth by learning moves from equipping weapons so it wasn't as simplistic as everyone getting new spells or abilities at certain levels.

FFIX also nailed the epic pacing better than any other title in the series. There were no drawn out dialogues, no sappy unrealistic love stories that come together out of nowhere, and no emo heroes who try so hard to impress you with how little they care. Characters reacted to the events in a realistic manner, they actually used humor effectively, and everyone's resolution involved personal growth without feeling forced.

You need to come stronger than that post above if you want to rip FFIX. No offense.

Edit: Oh, and how can FFIX be made for nostalgia when the entire crowd that would have had that feeling was left behind on the N64? Nostalgia played no part in FFIX's greatness, I can assure you.

[virion]

Did you even seriously play FFIX or did you just check some screen shots and deem it pathetic?

preordered and beat it in 5 days. played through it once again about a year later.

Edit: Oh, and how can FFIX be made for nostalgia when the entire crowd that would have had that feeling was left behind on the N64? Nostalgia played no part in FFIX's greatness, I can assure you.

like the fact that yo****aka amano was brought back for character design.. and the developers made a huge point in interviews that they were trying to bring the series to it's roots and even hironobu sakaguchi wanted this to be a reflection of the final fantasy series. his last game before leaving square.

[Smokey]

final fantasy has redeemed itself with X-2 and XII.

This cost you any credibility you had. X-2 was terrible. The only redeeming quality it had was the job system and the whore appeal. I won't even talk about the Final Fantasy That Never Happened.

Tactics was pretty ****ing beast, though. That's one thing that XII did right, was to continue the game in Ivalice.

[virion]

This cost you any credibility you had. X-2 was terrible. The only redeeming quality it had was the job system and the whore appeal.

final fantasy X-2 battle system was the most engaging of all final fantasy. so quick and streamlined. and the story wasn't supposed to be epic in any sense. something nice and fun. which is the reason that some of these people are saying that dragon quest is better than final fantasy.

anyways forget final fantasy X-2's story and whatnot. the battle system was the draw to that game, and it still was the best in the series. exactly why Final Fantasy 8 is still amazing even though it's battle system was a little flawed.

[MikeWolfskin]

Final Fantasy easy whips Dragon Oust in everything no question asked. Final Fantasy IX was the best in the series for begin a mixer of way past cool Anime styled characters and settings, storylines that where epic breath taking, comical, full of drama, pictured as a master piece of perfect vivid colors explained only as art! The story line has made me shad tears countless times! This game alone pawns anything Dragon Oust has to offer 100 fold, endlessly. It has made me believe it's more then just a game, it's expression!

Dragon Oust has a hardcore battle system only and plays jokes way to often not to mention the fact that they keep repeating them endlessly over and over again. Final Fantasy has a far better more changeling and entertaining battles system, and doesn't pull the same jokes over and over again. Dragon Oust jokes fill forced which turns me off, and Final Fantasy does funny moments that fill none forced and like a natural event that takes place randomly.

[JValone]

like the fact that yo****aka amano was brought back for character design.. and the developers made a huge point in interviews that they were trying to bring the series to it's roots and even hironobu sakaguchi wanted this to be a reflection of the final fantasy series. his last game before leaving square.

Sakaguchi wanted to move the setting back, yes, but only because after FFVIII if they had gotten any more futuristic it would have been Xenosaga. You still didn't specify what you disliked beyond "stupid" fantasy characters and airships, I'd be interested to hear what details about the game made it seem lackluster. Because some of the RPGs you listed at the beginning of this thread also lean heavily on JRPG archetypes.

[Smokey]

final fantasy X-2 battle system was the most engaging of all final fantasy. so quick and streamlined. and the story wasn't supposed to be epic in any sense. something nice and fun. which is the reason that some of these people are saying that dragon quest is better than final fantasy.

I didn't find the story to be engaging or fun at all. And the battle system is quick. That's all there is. Actually, I found it to be too quick. I wish they had kept the same battle system from X with the sequel.

anyways forget final fantasy X-2's story and whatnot. the battle system was the draw to that game, and it still was the best in the series. exactly why Final Fantasy 8 is still amazing even though it's battle system was a little flawed.

The battle system was terrible. The only half-decent part of the game was the job system. And I despised the 8th one's battle system much like I despised the rest of the game.

[thegamecubist]

I haven't played enough of DQ in order to surmise a meaningful opinion, but I liked the playfulness of it. That being said, I like FF alot more because of its variety, and I like the stories alot more, even though it still is a journey of going from point A to B, at least FF tries to deliver it a little differently each time. I hear XII is especially creative in this aspect; I should try it eventunally.





















OK, I really like FF for one reason:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1429/1116155447_cc8e7bdcc5.jpg

The hot cosplayers :)

[Tanooki]

Hmm now there's an argument you can win for FF, hot cosplayers.

Seriously though virion you've made no argument other than the style of the environment (normal FF values that existed for over a decade) and the fact the characters had set jobs and you had to work with what you had which to many isn't a bad thing as you don't have 4 clones running around. FF9 had airships, and that's a crime? The airship has been the other staple of what is FF aside from Moogles and Chocobos so that's a very odd statement. I can only almost agree with you in the childish look, but that was the art style considering they were trying to do more with the PSX hardware where you could create a lusher world, more rounded off things, better detailing, a lighter more interesting area that wasn't just all dark, brooding, hell...emo. I also don't see why it's a crime they brought back one of the main designers of the FF series to breathe some life back into it as the guy is a damn good artist.

[virion]

and the fact the characters had set jobs and you had to work with what you had which to many isn't a bad thing as you don't have 4 clones running around. FF9 had airships, and that's a crime? The airship has been the other staple of what is FF aside from Moogles and Chocobos so that's a very odd statement. I can only almost agree with you in the childish look, but that was the art style considering they were trying to do more with the PSX hardware where you could create a lusher world, more rounded off things, better detailing, a lighter more interesting area that wasn't just all dark, brooding, hell...emo. I also don't see why it's a crime they brought back one of the main designers of the FF series to breathe some life back into it as the guy is a damn good artist.


1. i never said **** about final fantasy 9's battle system being bad.. i actually loved final fantasy 9's battle system with the weapons, armor, and job classes. tactics is one of my favorite games.

2. yo****aka amano is amazing. i have some of his art books and his work in neil gaiman's sandman : the dream hunters.. was brilliant.

[Tanooki]

I wasn't exactly getting into the entire job system, just the set design of the players.

If you hold the guy in such high regard, why act like it's a negative in regard to this solitary game? That seems almost like an odd double standard. He's great, but sucks being brought in for FF9 because it's old style and out of touch.

[virion]

Sakaguchi wanted to move the setting back, yes, but only because after FFVIII if they had gotten any more futuristic it would have been Xenosaga. You still didn't specify what you disliked beyond "stupid" fantasy characters and airships, I'd be interested to hear what details about the game made it seem lackluster. Because some of the RPGs you listed at the beginning of this thread also lean heavily on JRPG archetypes.

here's one.. the characters. they're all like 12. vivi is 9. the oldest one is the criminal and the knight. the characters are unimaginative.

this game is solid. but it doesn't shine. when you think of great scenes from the final fantasy games, what scenes from 9 come to mind?.. kuja? ha.

[virion]

I wasn't exactly getting into the entire job system, just the set design of the players.

If you hold the guy in such high regard, why act like it's a negative in regard to this solitary game? That seems almost like an odd double standard. He's great, but sucks being brought in for FF9 because it's old style and out of touch.

man. i brought up yo****aka amano because of this statement...

"Oh, and how can FFIX be made for nostalgia when the entire crowd that would have had that feeling was left behind on the N64? Nostalgia played no part in FFIX's greatness, I can assure you."

i was just making a point that it was for nostalgia. final fantasy 9 was made as an homage to the final fantasy series. thus bringing yo****aka amano back to the fold for character design.

[Tanooki]

Well one thing is certain, they did the right thing in doing what they did with 9 as it proved one last time they could make a great Final Fantasy game in the structure of what FF used to be that kept the franchise alive for so long in the hearts of millions. My only regret was the inability to play that game until 2001 when I bought it off one of the supervisors at Midway.

[MikeWolfskin]

here's one.. the characters. they're all like 12. vivi is 9. the oldest one is the criminal and the knight. the characters are unimaginative.

Why does characters age matter? There is a wide virility of teenagers to adults in Final Fantasy IX. In fact there where only two children in the title, begin Vivi and Eiko. Personally I have distaste for Video Games not evolving all ages.

Resident Evil is the perfect example of a title I love that doesn't evolve children. That's not realistic, and while I understand this is a fantasy, Video games most mix realism together with fantasy to be rich, complex and divine.

Young peolpe have been fighting in wars for years claiming there age higher then what they really where. Just look back at our World Wars for proof. So I don't see why every game has to involve a tone of adult shooting each other. Why does a few smiling faces or moments of young imagination bug any of you? Your all stereo type a few children.

I disagree Final Fantasy IX has very Anime style complex storyline about Romance and Adventure mixed perfectly. Each character lives beyound the typical American setting of living in the now like in there western cartoons. Unlike Micky Mouse they have a present a past, a future and an adventure to told, explained and enjoyed.

Vivi had a very powerful storyline that I highly relate to. Growing up I was picked on a lot for small differences. I've lived throw the stage of begin souly alone and shy to people, where you’re not willing to stand up for your self. I have a very friend at who I hold very dearly who is worst then I used to be. She only really opens up to me. Watching Vivi change in the story from a prospective I now all to well in bodied me into the storyline and made fill like I was the character him self. This little guy made me cry and it was epic!


this game is solid. but it doesn't shine. when you think of great scenes from the final fantasy games, what scenes from 9 come to mind?.. kuja? ha.

First there is the ending. Which involves a written play entitled "I What to be a Canary" an ending cinema which shows in hidden backdrops that Vivi is not longer living as it shows his many children but not him. I shows the most wonderful ending that had really crying thinking zidane was dead and jumping and smiling with joy when you find out he is not. There is also the music which is played in full length and lyrics for the time. This song was evolved as hidden element all throw out the game.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/D74m2OUm5MI&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/D74m2OUm5MI&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Smokey]

Why does characters age matter? There is a wide virility of teenagers to adults in Final Fantasy IX. In fact there where only two children in the title, begin Vivi and Eiko. Personally I have distaste for Video Games not evolving all ages.

Actually, I'm kinda agreeing with Virion on the topic of age. Now, whether his FFIX example is accurate, I can't say since I haven't played IX. I will say that I find games where most/all of the protagonists are children to be quite annoying and unimaginative. Tales of Symphonia is the only exception that comes to mind, but even that quality grated on me. I ****ing hated Genis, and still do. Why? Because he's ten or something, has that whiny little kid voice, and is a brat. If I wanted that kind of experience, I'd talk to my youngest brother.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with having children in videogames. The last-gen and current-gen Fire Emblems only go to prove this. Having games with protagonists that are mostly children is a terribly aged, cliched, and unimaginative concept.

[MR EPIC]

FFIX has nothing to do with the characters' ages, because they were no younger than the characters in FFVII. And like FFVII the characters in FFIX were smaller and WAY more charming than the full-size characters of FFVIII (crap game), FFX, FFX-2, etc...I just think that Virion has a problem with FFIX because the developer clearly wanted to cater to it's Nintendo roots of fantasy rather than go with it's continued PS1 style.

I will admit, however, that some of FFIX's characters were not as interesting as those found in other entries (Zidane, Kuja).

[Tanooki]

Smokey virions example of the characters in FF9 is dishonest, they're not kids. He just doesn't like the animation style that's just more softer and rounded, than the harsh serious (if psx was a ps3) real wannabe style it went with in say FF7/8. As epic said, he seems to hate they realized they needed to return the series at least one last time to the style that made it so damn popular and it didn't sit with him being that it has nothing in common with 7 or 8. This seems sadly to be the case with a lot of the children who started on the PSX being closeminded about the entire thing.

[MikeWolfskin]

Actually, I'm kinda agreeing with Virion on the topic of age. Now, whether his FFIX example is accurate, I can't say since I haven't played IX. I will say that I find games where most/all of the protagonists are children to be quite annoying and unimaginative. Tales of Symphonia is the only exception that comes to mind, but even that quality grated on me. I ****ing hated Genis, and still do. Why? Because he's ten or something, has that whiny little kid voice, and is a brat. If I wanted that kind of experience, I'd talk to my youngest brother.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with having children in videogames. The last-gen and current-gen Fire Emblems only go to prove this. Having games with protagonists that are mostly children is a terribly aged, cliched, and unimaginative concept.

Your clearly wrong, you are in fact saying that children don't belong in Video Games. Life is life and life is full of ages of all kinds we have to live together. Not everyone is a huge deep adult voice that says hand me a bear and the shotgun. It's hard to believe peolpe with out kids don't get that. Am I the only soul with out a kid of who enjoys realisum in having a child present and acting in place of begin child?

Genis was a fantastic character voiced by a very popular Anime Dubber. The character was well beyound his mature for his age yet still had childish moments which fit perfectly. The game would have been boring with different ages and positionally to intact with.

Smokey virions example of the characters in FF9 is dishonest, they're not kids. He just doesn't like the animation style that's just more softer and rounded, than the harsh serious (if psx was a ps3) real wannabe style it went with in say FF7/8. As epic said, he seems to hate they realized they needed to return the series at least one last time to the style that made it so damn popular and it didn't sit with him being that it has nothing in common with 7 or 8. This seems sadly to be the case with a lot of the children who started on the PSX being closeminded about the entire thing.

Damn right, Final Fantasy VIII is the perfect example of missing the personalty of the series or different ages and personalty. Not everything has to fill all Hardcore in gaming sometimes something a bit light heard at points is a good change between the two styles.

[Smokey]

I wasn't saying that was true of FFIX; I specifically stated that I couldn't comment on IX because I hadn't played it. I was speaking more on games in general, as you will note if give my post a second, closer read.

[MikeWolfskin]

I wasn't saying that was true of FFIX; I specifically stated that I couldn't comment on IX because I hadn't played it. I was speaking more on games in general, as you will note if give my post a second, closer read.

What Final Fantasy's have you played?

[Smokey]

Your clearly wrong, you are in fact saying that children don't belong in Video Games. Life is life and life is full of ages of all kinds we have to live together. Not everyone is a huge deep adult voice that says hand me a bear and the shotgun. It's hard to believe peolpe with out kids don't get that. Am I the only soul with out a kid of who enjoys realisum in having a child present and acting in place of begin child?

That's a load of crap. I'm not saying anything to that effect. Children have their place in games. No question about it, especially from me. A game's protagonists should not be composed mostly of children, though.

Genis was a fantastic character voiced by a very popular Anime Dubber. The character was well beyound his mature for his age yet still had childish moments which fit perfectly. The game would have been boring with different ages and positionally to intact with.

Bull****. Genis was a terrible character, and his voice annoyed the hell out of me. Just because his voice actor is popular doesn't mean Genis is a good character. And even without Genis, the game would have still been full of kids. Lloyd and Colette are, what, fifteen or sixteen? Presea is even younger (yes, I know about her condition, but the fact remains that she's portrayed as a child), and Sheena and Zelos are only a bit older than Lloyd is. The only adult party members are Regal and Raine (I don't consider Kratos to be a protagonist, even given the game ending).

There are tons of games with the same premise, which is to put a bunch of kids on a mission and save the world, and tank because of it. Tales is extremely lucky that it sold so well and had other redeeming qualities to it. I consider a game to have a good variety of ages to be much better than a game with mostly children.

[Smokey]

What Final fantasy have you played?

VII, VIII, X, X-2, and Tactics Advanced. Oh, I have played a bit of I, but that was a store kiosk, so I guess that doesn't count.

[Tanooki]

Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles Ring of Fates on the DS is a grade A game on the DS and the two hero twins are kids. It doesn't cheapen the experience at all, and overall the game is quite fantastic. Hell I actually bothered to finish that one.

[Smokey]

That reminds me, I've played FF: Crystal Chronicles on GC, too. Personally, Jeff, I wish you hadn't said anything. I managed to block that from my mind, actually. That was a terrible game. And it was INSANELY kiddy. Even the old people looked infantile.

[Tanooki]

That game wasn't so much kiddy as just really crappily designed. Until I did some real research on the DS game I was going to avoid it just by association to that steaming pile on a disc.

[Smokey]

Yeah, the design was ****, but you can't deny that it had a kiddy feel to it.

[MR EPIC]

Fair enough. Crystal Chronicles was definitely kiddie, But not FFIX.

[virion]

Smokey virions example of the characters in FF9 is dishonest, they're not kids. He just doesn't like the animation style that's just more softer and rounded, than the harsh serious (if psx was a ps3) real wannabe style it went with in say FF7/8. As epic said, he seems to hate they realized they needed to return the series at least one last time to the style that made it so damn popular and it didn't sit with him being that it has nothing in common with 7 or 8. This seems sadly to be the case with a lot of the children who started on the PSX being closeminded about the entire thing.

zidane and garnet are 16.. vivi is 9.. eiko was 6.

mother****er.. final fantasy 6 is still one of my favorites. just kidding about the mother****er.

[MikeWolfskin]

That's a load of crap. I'm not saying anything to that effect. Children have their place in games. No question about it, especially from me. A game's protagonists should not be composed mostly of children, though.



Bull****. Genis was a terrible character, and his voice annoyed the hell out of me. Just because his voice actor is popular doesn't mean Genis is a good character. And even without Genis, the game would have still been full of kids. Lloyd and Colette are, what, fifteen or sixteen? Presea is even younger (yes, I know about her condition, but the fact remains that she's portrayed as a child), and Sheena and Zelos are only a bit older than Lloyd is. The only adult party members are Regal and Raine (I don't consider Kratos to be a protagonist, even given the game ending).

There are tons of games with the same premise, which is to put a bunch of kids on a mission and save the world, and tank because of it. Tales is extremely lucky that it sold so well and had other redeeming qualities to it. I consider a game to have a good variety of ages to be much better than a game with mostly children.

There teenagers not children, they fight wars in the real world at that age check the history books on World War 1 and 2 if don't believe me. People where fighting wars at fails ages a lot back then. Young peolpe of not much older then 18 fight wars into days time. If there is nothing wrong with it in real life, there is nothing wrong with it in gaming a Fantasy setting world! We don't call peolpe 16 and up little kids anymore it's disrespectful. Your where young once your self and I don't now about you I loved begin young. The whole point of a light harted game like that is to get you look back in time to the days on younger enjoyment.

Sony once placed a demo-graph on gamers in wishing to sell titles to an audience. It was basically something like, "If Your younger then 18 you what to be 18 because begin 18 is cool, and your above 18 you wish you where 18 again because 18 was perfect".

There is a lot of good stuff about that and a lot of bad stuff because where playing video Games which in truth is a forum of Noval (Book Reading) and Art mixed together. Yeah that's right gamers are art lovers and story reader in many ways.

The argument your making has no depth because you have not personally played not just Final Fantasy IX but also missed out on what made the series what it was back a Nintendo 16 bit platform. This was why I asked what Final Fantasy's you had played. I now your answer based on what you said above long before you answered me. I now you where going to say you had only played the PlayStation 3D Final Fantasy's.

The truth is your generation have no idea what Final Fantasy was really about because you refuse to take a willing step back in time to check out the originals. If you told me you had played Final Fantasy III, Final Fantasy IV or Final Fantasy VI I could respect your opinion more. I don't mean this rudely but you really have to go play a few of the originals and Final Fantasy XI to be a part of this argument.

Genis was perfect he sounded in character and whiny on porous live with it peolpe kids do that and it's supposed to be cute. if you can't get that go have a few so as to learn about it. Trust me you'll learn about them by begin around them. There not really whinny they just have the world above and ahead of them and lots to learn. This title had two kids in it and a set teenagers live with it man, young peolpe have saved are real world before and they will be written into fantasy saving them till the end of time. Why because it happen in real life and because this is Fantasy anything goes. and that is where Sony screwed a lot of gaming up making it fill as if everything had to hardcore beat everyone up, nothing cute is cool demo graph.

I hate to say this but Sony had one thing right everyone really does what to remain young at hart while looking cool. They just seemed to forget a good way to show that off was having a light hearted RPG storyline with sold Hardcore gaming elements. Making cute look un cool is destroying the inspection into days games END OF TOPIC! Not everything has to all OMG flash serious, a good mix is perfect but screw that other ****.

[MR EPIC]

I can safely say that Mike, Jeff, JValone, Blokeymon, myself, and others here are all in agreement here that FF9 is the best FF on the Playstation and probably the best 3D FF of them all. Either we're all crazy or we're onto something. The other thing that most of us agree on is that FF8 was terrible.

[Darc Requiem]

Wow, how did I miss this thread. Curse my ToV addiction. While I enjoyed FFX, Final Fantasy IX was the last true FF game and the best on PS1. I had given up on the series after VII and VIII. FFIX actually gave me hope that they were going right the ship with the franchise.

Dragon Quest is what got me started when it comes to JRPGs. That said, Final Fantasy had the edge hands down. I have played all the DQ games although my play time was limited with some of the titles, DQV in particular. The only DQ games that touch the best of the Final Fantasy franchise are DQVI and DQVIII. DQVIII shares a lot in common with DQVI.

The one thing the DQ franchise has over FF is consistence. For good for bad you always had a general idea of what to expect out of DQ game. Final Fantasy games have been all over the places over the last 11 years and that has really hurt the series. Four out of the last five major Final Fantasy titles are Final Fantasy in name only. In fact, I would say that Square Enix slaps Final Fantasy on RPGs for the name recognition.

[virion]

While I enjoyed FFX, Final Fantasy IX was the last true FF game and the best on PS1. I had given up on the series after VII and VIII.

is everyone forgetting (or has no one played) Final Fantasy XII?

[MR EPIC]

The only DQ games that touch the best of the Final Fantasy franchise are DQVI and DQVIII. DQVIII shares a lot in common with DQVI.

The one thing the DQ franchise has over FF is consistence. For good for bad you always had a general idea of what to expect out of DQ game. Final Fantasy games have been all over the places over the last 11 years and that has really hurt the series. Four out of the last five major Final Fantasy titles are Final Fantasy in name only. In fact, I would say that Square Enix slaps Final Fantasy on RPGs for the name recognition.

I think some magnum lovin' bastard just got OWND! ;)

[Darc Requiem]

is everyone forgetting (or has no one played) Final Fantasy XII?

Yes I've played XII and as I've said. Four out of the last five major Final Fantasy games are Final Fantasy in name only. XII is the epitome of that. I am sure you can find posts on this forum of me defending XII initially before getting further into the game and realizing that the detractors were right and I was wrong.

[Smokey]

There teenagers not children, they fight wars in the real world at that age check the history books on World War 1 and 2 if don't believe me. People where fighting wars at fails ages a lot back then. Young peolpe of not much older then 18 fight wars into days time. If there is nothing wrong with it in real life, there is nothing wrong with it in gaming a Fantasy setting world! We don't call peolpe 16 and up little kids anymore it's disrespectful. Your where young once your self and I don't now about you I loved begin young. The whole point of a light harted game like that is to get you look back in time to the days on younger enjoyment.

I am quite aware that children below the age of eighteen have fought in wars all over the world. That's a fact. It's also irrelevant. If you're not eighteen in the US, you are considered a child. 12-17 year olds are only called young adults out of courtesy. And I don't have a problem with light-hearted. I don't really enjoy games that have a kiddy feel to them because the characters all look like children or they are all children. Games with only adults can be light-hearted.

The argument your making has no depth because you have not personally played not just Final Fantasy IX but also missed out on what made the series what it was back a Nintendo 16 bit platform. This was why I asked what Final Fantasy's you had played. I now your answer based on what you said above long before you answered me. I now you where going to say you had only played the PlayStation 3D Final Fantasy's.

The truth is your generation have no idea what Final Fantasy was really about because you refuse to take a willing step back in time to check out the originals. If you told me you had played Final Fantasy III, Final Fantasy IV or Final Fantasy VI I could respect your opinion more. I don't mean this rudely but you really have to go play a few of the originals and Final Fantasy XI to be a part of this argument.

The fact that I haven't played FFIX or FF previous to VII doesn't null my argument. In fact, since my argument had little to do with IX or I-VI in the first place, your response is completely off-base. My argument is not solely limited to FF, but expands to games in general. Get over Virion's argument and pay attention to mine.

Genis was perfect he sounded in character and whiny on porous live with it peolpe kids do that and it's supposed to be cute. if you can't get that go have a few so as to learn about it. Trust me you'll learn about them by begin around them. There not really whinny they just have the world above and ahead of them and lots to learn. This title had two kids in it and a set teenagers live with it man, young peolpe have saved are real world before and they will be written into fantasy saving them till the end of time. Why because it happen in real life and because this is Fantasy anything goes. and that is where Sony screwed a lot of gaming up making it fill as if everything had to hardcore beat everyone up, nothing cute is cool demo graph.

Genis was a brat. He was annoying as ****. That voice isn't cute, it's like hearing nails on a blackboard. Again, if I wanted to hear some little kid's voice whining at me I'd talk to my little brother.

And do you even know the meaning of fantasy? Fantasy is an escape from reality, not an analogue of it. Yes, realistic situations can be put into a fantasy setting, but if you're just going to make it a realistic game, then you're taking the fantasy out of the picture. You can't have a fantasy game and make it analogous to the real world.

I hate to say this but Sony had one thing right everyone really does what to remain young at hart while looking cool. They just seemed to forget a good way to show that off was having a light hearted RPG storyline with sold Hardcore gaming elements. Making cute look un cool is destroying the inspection into days games END OF TOPIC! Not everything has to all OMG flash serious, a good mix is perfect but screw that other ****.

There's a point where the cute and happy becomes the annoyingly bratty. Again, there's nothing wrong with a little realism in a fantasy game, but making things so that the characters are just like you would find in real life destroys the whole point of making a fantasy game. And I agree, a happy medium is the best thing. It usually is. Hence the medium being called "happy".

[MR EPIC]

Smokey - I can assure you that FF9 is not "kiddie" one bit. Now Tales of Symphonia, that's kiddy and at times annoying with the whiny voice acting and all. Just play the damn thing (FF9) and you'll see what the rest of us see.

Virion - I played FFXII and thought it was terrible. It didn't have any sort of FF feel to it, the battle system was better suited for an MMO, and was just completely uninspired. It should have been called something else other than Final Fantasy. I am looking forward to FFXIII but have very low expectations of it. The series needs Sakaguchi just the same as Mario needs Miyamoto.

[Darc Requiem]

Smokey you don't have much experience with the original Final Fantasy titles. The NES titles haven't aged too well but IV,V, VI have. Play those along with FFIX and get back to us ;)

[Smokey]

I'm not saying that IX is kiddie. I haven't said that at all.

[virion]

now i hope we can all agree on this.. Final Fantasy I, Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles, and Final Fantasy Tactics Advance are the worst.

[Darc Requiem]

now i hope we can all agree on this.. Final Fantasy I, Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles, and Final Fantasy Tactics Advance are the worst.

Despite its improved character development I'd say Final Fantasy II is worse than Final Fantasy I due to the broken leveling system. I know I won't get agreement on my least favorites but they are FFVII, FFVIII, and FFX-2. The worst games in the series for me would be FFII, FFVII, and FFX-2.

However, I don't consider Mystic Quest, Crystal Chronicles, or Tactics part of the main series. I do share you disdain for FFTA however. I could make an entire thread about my dislike for FFTA.

[MikeWolfskin]

I think some magnum lovin' bastard just got OWND! ;)

I think not Dragon Oust VIII was trash deal. I've seen graphic come out of a PlayStation one look better then that game did. If call pasting the tree everywhere pretty you need your fixed.
No matter how fun any Dragon Oust was the worst Final fantasy of all times is mile above it.
Hearing that Dragon Oust IV is like VIII turns me off major time. The PlayStation 2 just was not epic and wast of development purely. My brother where talking about this night and we agree that many PlayStation one games look years beyound Dragon Oust VIII. Dragon Oust had good looking charter models and looked beyound edgy in way to many spots. I don't fight a final boss to hear about it bitch on about a crystal ball hinting it. The battle system also had no edge at all. Boss fights where purely based off level up like crazy versus plain strategy and level up system that Final Fantasy has. Dragon Oust is always making everything a joke so it gets old, Final Fantasy mixes the modes at a good rate so does not get old.

[Tanooki]

^Not going to get an argument out of me on either the dislike or the general 'worst' games, and throw in FFT titles too with that as well. The only thing I'll argue against being bad is FF2, but only the GBA/PSX version which fixed up the weird system and made it work pretty well. I liked it enough to finish the game and I intend re-pick it up again on PSP eventually along with FF1.

[Smokey]

now i hope we can all agree on this.. Final Fantasy I, Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles, and Final Fantasy Tactics Advance are the worst.

You make me sad. Tactics Advanced was one of my favorite GBA titles, and I thought it was a pretty good FF game, myself.

[Darc Requiem]

Only a fanboy would say the worst Final Fantasy titles are better than the best Dragon Quest games. DQVI and DQVIII rival the best Final Fantasy titles in quality.

[MikeWolfskin]

I'm not saying that IX is kiddie. I haven't said that at all.

I'm not even going to wast my time with you tell you step back and go play a real Final Fantasy! The whole point of this thread was Dragon Oust VS Final Fantasy nothing else. As an ending comment your still deadly wrong, there teenagers, not adult not children get over it and learn to respect the three age differences. As you agreed a good mixture of Fantasy and Realty is best but you can't make your own opinion because you have not registered to vote, so tell you have registered to vote to have an opinion on the topic at had butt out and can it! Come back when you have played the following.

Final Fantasy IV
Final Fantasy V
Final Fantasy VI
Final Fantasy IX

now i hope we can all agree on this.. Final Fantasy I, Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles, and Final Fantasy Tactics Advance are the worst.

Final Fantasy was perfect for it's time the company would not be around if not for it, as the name says Final Fantasy was there last hope of a good and Final try at a Fantasy game. Thankfully it was everything but final but it changed the way RPG where seen, played and enjoyed. It was by no means a bad title.

Final Fantasy II was by far the worst game in the series for screwing with a already perfect combat system as well as letting you walk into danger you could get of. Example I walk out to find out where I need to go and save, then I return to the game a day later to find with in a few steps I'm in area where the foes can kick my ass and attack my name with waring.

Next inline is Final Fantasy VIII which only had a good hidden love story at best as well as sold graphic. The storyline made no sense at all ever no matter how hard you tried to do everything, it felt way to real where Final Fantasy was about a mixture of Fantasy and realty. I don't even what to go into how hard the combat system was and what it demanded. Just try staring there drawling cards from a Red Dragon to get a good amount Flairs for twenty Four hours like I did. Then learn that you can't cast that magic if you what a good defense. basely this means Magic was not fun to us or readily available. There point where peolpe get hit the hart all the way throw from ICE and they he returns no scare no questions asked to why he is still alive, and that is bull ****!

[virion]

Next inline is Final Fantasy VIII which only had a good hidden love story at best as well as sold graphic. The storyline made no sense at all ever no matter how hard you tried to do everything, it felt way to real where Final Fantasy was about a mixture of Fantasy and realty. I don't even what to go into how hard the combat system was and what it demanded. Just try staring there drawling cards from a Red Dragon to get a good amount Flairs for twenty Four hours like I did. Then learn that you can't cast that magic if you what a good defense. basely this means Magic was not fun to us or readily available. There point where peolpe get hit the hart all the way throw from ICE and they he returns no scare no questions asked to why he is still alive, and that is bull ****!

final fantasy 8's story was amazing. the only fault i can give people who complain about it is the whole orphanage and gf making you forget about it. the story of love between squall and rinoa, and finding that you can let others in and help you was what made the game shine. with stand out moments in the game like squall going to space to save rinoa who was going to be sealed because of the possibility that sorceress ultimecia would possess her. also how eyes on me is a recurring musical theme throughout the game (mike you should like this because you mentioned melodies of life). not to mention the ending of final fantasy 8.

also another great scene.. squall carrying rinoa from fisherman's horizon onto esther to find a cure.

[MikeWolfskin]

Only a fanboy would say the worst Final Fantasy titles are better than the best Dragon Quest games. DQVI and DQVIII rival the best Final Fantasy titles in quality.

Quality? There is no such thing as quality in Dragon Oust VIII! It clearly looks like **** from hell, PlayStation one games looked better. It had dumb beat them up for level up skill to it. Which was fine in the 8 Bit era but this the 3D era peolpe. Once more I'll say there was no strategy to dragon Oust boss or foes in general. If you love like every American does some dumb ass Sponge Boo show screaming your stupid I can see how you would find that funny, well not really. But for the rest of us where in gaming not just to think it's funny souly which is what Dragon Oust does it makes you fill dumb young. It makes way to many jokes which are quint often the same damn joke. What see funny and epic go play Super Mario RPG. What to see Dragon Oust on Nintendo go play Paper Mario which jokes way to much -_- ( I'll agree I'm a Final Fantasy Fanboy and I have a huge problem with games and American animations joking in comedy way to much. This might be why I dislike Dragon Qoust)

Both style are no where near one anther for reasons, one is based of serious Fantasy that will make cry or get hyped over enjoyment and strategy while the other is based of joking and power leveling to have to skill. This bitch fest needs to end Final Fantasy pawn Dragon Oust no question asked!

[virion]

Final Fantasy pawn Dragon Oust no question asked!

i'll agree with that.

[Smokey]

I'm not even going to wast my time with you tell you step back and go play a real Final Fantasy! The whole point of this thread was Dragon Oust VS Final Fantasy nothing else. As an ending comment your still deadly wrong, there teenagers, not adult not children get over it and learn to respect the three age differences. As you agreed a good mixture of Fantasy and Realty is best but you can't make your own opinion because you have not registered to vote, so tell you have registered to vote to have an opinion on the topic at had butt out and can it! Come back when you have played the following.

Final Fantasy IV
Final Fantasy V
Final Fantasy VI
Final Fantasy IX

Teenagers ARE children. The law doesn't make special allowances for teenagers as opposed to children. There is nothing separating a teenager from a child except PC society. Just because your balls have dropped and you've started growing hair doesn't mean you aren't still a child. This is all I will say, though, as I don't want to derail the thread further.

Also, I find it incredibly elitist for people to claim that the FF games they don't care for aren't real FF games. FF games have never had one particular theme that they've settle on, so you can't make the same argument that you can with Resident Evil games. Final Fantasy has always jumped around from one theme to another. So again, my opinion is not voided just because I haven't played your favorite FF game.

[MikeWolfskin]

final fantasy 8's story was amazing. the only fault i can give people who complain about it is the whole orphanage and gf making you forget about it. the story of love between squall and rinoa, and finding that you can let others in and help you was what made the game shine. with stand out moments in the game like squall going to space to save rinoa who was going to be sealed because of the possibility that sorceress ultimecia would possess her. also how eyes on me is a recurring musical theme throughout the game (mike you should like this because you mentioned melodies of life). not to mention the ending of final fantasy 8.

also another great scene.. squall carrying rinoa from fisherman's horizon onto esther to find a cure.

I disagree he plays go kill the witch the whole storyline only to be near to death and saved with out possible reason way to many times. Sorry when some get smacked by Bliazzga in there heart and live to tell the tell I what a damn good reason.

Card battle system destroy good combat system still to date. I don't like having to drawl 100 flairs from a Red Dragon for twenty four hours just have a fair edge on the next boss.
Then lest talk about how the foes leveled up with you always, lame! So I can't use magic if I what to win, I have to drawl magic in cards for twenty four hours to get an edge to win, and leveling up mean **** in the end! Epic Fail.

The only part of Final fantasy VIII that was enjoyed was the love story going on, even the fabled bird looked like a retard from Sesame Street on crack. They had a cool sword called gunblade, to bad Final Fantasy VIII didn't make it anything neat.

There is no argument that Final fantasy VIII was bad game look back at how many peolpe agree is dreadful. By the way all the above I've done and much, much more, there life game expressions with that title that I have beat.

[MikeWolfskin]

Teenagers ARE children. The law doesn't make special allowances for teenagers as opposed to children. There is nothing separating a teenager from a child except PC society. Just because your balls have dropped and you've started growing hair doesn't mean you aren't still a child. This is all I will say, though, as I don't want to derail the thread further.

Also, I find it incredibly elitist for people to claim that the FF games they don't care for aren't real FF games. FF games have never had one particular theme that they've settle on, so you can't make the same argument that you can with Resident Evil games. Final Fantasy has always jumped around from one theme to another. So again, my opinion is not voided just because I haven't played your favorite FF game.

:stfu: Tell you go play an original Final Fantasy game Smokey END OF TOPIC! There teenagers they have fought in wars in our history book! Just because your old doesn't mean you get the only respect that's bull ****! :stfu:

Finlay this Fantasy not our own world if you don't like something don't play it, I love seeing young peolpe save the world because they have done it in our history them self's in the real world! DAEL WITH IT! Agree to disagree and move on. I loved TOS as the best RPG of last generation and as a sold title I will never back down on it greatness!

[virion]

Card battle system destroy good combat system still to date. I don't like having to drawl 100 flairs from a Red Dragon for twenty four hours just have a fair edge on the next boss.

you could have just hit up the random draw points on the islands closest to heaven and hell to get all the flair and ultima you wanted.

[MikeWolfskin]

you could have just hit up the random draw points on the islands closest to heaven and hell to get all the flair and ultima you wanted.

That's not the point the red dragon is the part of the game where you have returned to the past of his father is the first point and time to get it. If you what the edge on the coming boss it's best to just do it there. Both ways to get the flare Card is no easy task and takes time.

The only Random drawl point for ultima lets you take like what 3 every twenty four hours of in game time! No thank you. Did I do this? Yes! Do I suck for begin a Final Fantasy Nerd for doing it? Yes! (Wach me quoted on this, sigh....)

[Nismo]

Shenmue >>> Yakuza >> Corn Dogs > Dragon Quest > Final Fantasy

Dragon Quest has stayed pretty consistent with their battle system (i.e. turn based) and is a ton more revered in Japan vs Final Fantasy nowadays. In America, I would say Final Fantasy surpasses DQ, mainly because we never had it mainstreamed until Square swallowed Enix and we got Dragon Quest VIII.

I'm not going to get into the whole BS and pick a side especially if the responses will be fanboyish. Both are great series, but I feel DQ is beginning to take the edge especially when DQ9 hits next year (a game that will sell by the ****loads in Japan). FF has taken a downfall since 8. Every single one since 8 feels less exciting and the battle system just gets retarded. IX is extreme crap as well, especially the one no one talks about. X and XI, yea whatever. XII was a letdown especially story wise. Everything before 8 was the time Final Fantasy shined. FF3, FF4, FF6, FF, FF7...all great titles. Final Fantasy has a hit a wall, so I hope it jumps over it when FF13 hits instead of taking a right turn and hitting the pit stop for more donuts.

DQ on the other hand continues to grow and become better. Every single version continued to work on it's past success and improve upon it. DQ4 just came out today on DS, all my friends bought it, and they love it. All are anxiously waiting for DQ9. All my friends are RPG nut cases and usually buy them on release date. It's not like I'm going by my opinions, I'm going by what I've seen they see, what I've seen people buy, how many are traded in, and who really gives a crap. In the end, DQ is evolving at a better pace.

Now, I don't own one DQ game. I refuse to because I hate owning one of a series (I must own the entire series). FF on the other hand, I own every single one, some even multiple times. As you can see, it's not like I'm being a fanboy about it. I own the series I feel has hit a wall yet I live on.

Sorry if I'm all over the place, I'm really tired and all of this came through my head quite fast.

[MR EPIC]

Are you kidding me Virion?! Final Fantasy Tactics Advanced completely PWND Final Fantasy Tactics, and was one of the best GBA games ever. I played that awesome game for over 300 freakin' hours. What is it with you hating the good stuff?

[Darc Requiem]

I have to side on Virion on that one John. FFTA has that crappy judge system, was easy as hell in spite of it, and I just never cared for the premise.

Mike you are fanboy. You said the worst FF games are better than the best DQ games. There is no way in hell that FFII, FFVII, FFVIII, FFX-2, and FFXII are all better than DQVI and DQVIII.

[virion]

I played that awesome game for over 300 freakin' hours. What is it with you hating the good stuff?

total waste of approximately 2 weeks of your life.

[MikeWolfskin]

In my opinion you named only two bad Final Fantasy titles but all of the above stand above Dragon Oust as series that will not fix simple mistakes.

Begin constant in the same combat fully holds the series back from evolving or improving even slightly. Playing the same game 100% the way the last once did is no fun at all and gets beyond retentive fast. Dragon Ousts mistake is not changing the boss strategy to involved real tactics. It’s as simple as level up by power leveling and beat down the boss if your strong souly. That worked in the 8 Bit era where in a 3D world now. Why does Final Fantasy's worst stand above Dragon in full? Simple even in the 8 bit era it had tactics to it's boss fights.

Final Fantasy makes power level and learn to tactics for every boss, meaning some wimp that stands they’re twenty for seven leveling up can’t win on that souly. I’m not saying there better because I what to I’m just telling the truth Dragon Quest doesn’t make you fill rewarded in anything about it’s combat.

How can any of compare a comedy RPG to a series RPG is beyond me they don’t compare at all. Again I did try to back down a little in saying I’m sick of comedy personally but whatever don’t responded if you can’t make a good argument fanboy.

[JValone]

Shenmue >>> Yakuza >> Corn Dogs > Dragon Quest > Final Fantasy

Dragon Quest has stayed pretty consistent with their battle system (i.e. turn based) and is a ton more revered in Japan vs Final Fantasy nowadays. In America, I would say Final Fantasy surpasses DQ, mainly because we never had it mainstreamed until Square swallowed Enix and we got Dragon Quest VIII.

I'm not going to get into the whole BS and pick a side especially if the responses will be fanboyish. Both are great series, but I feel DQ is beginning to take the edge especially when DQ9 hits next year (a game that will sell by the ****loads in Japan). FF has taken a downfall since 8. Every single one since 8 feels less exciting and the battle system just gets retarded. IX is extreme crap as well, especially the one no one talks about. X and XI, yea whatever. XII was a letdown especially story wise. Everything before 8 was the time Final Fantasy shined. FF3, FF4, FF6, FF, FF7...all great titles. Final Fantasy has a hit a wall, so I hope it jumps over it when FF13 hits instead of taking a right turn and hitting the pit stop for more donuts.

DQ on the other hand continues to grow and become better. Every single version continued to work on it's past success and improve upon it. DQ4 just came out today on DS, all my friends bought it, and they love it. All are anxiously waiting for DQ9. All my friends are RPG nut cases and usually buy them on release date. It's not like I'm going by my opinions, I'm going by what I've seen they see, what I've seen people buy, how many are traded in, and who really gives a crap. In the end, DQ is evolving at a better pace.

Now, I don't own one DQ game. I refuse to because I hate owning one of a series (I must own the entire series). FF on the other hand, I own every single one, some even multiple times. As you can see, it's not like I'm being a fanboy about it. I own the series I feel has hit a wall yet I live on.

Sorry if I'm all over the place, I'm really tired and all of this came through my head quite fast.


The reason Dragon Quest continues to improve is because it was so archaic in the first place. DQ8 is so revered because it finally embraced the current era of RPGs for a franchise that was stuck in the dark ages. Even if you dislike FFVII and VIII the FF series as a whole obliterated everything DQ accomplished up to that point in time. DQ was only relevant in a single country in the entire world and that is no coincidence. It had a ravenous fanbase who bought the franchise based on its mystique there while the rest of the world couldn't overlook how the FF/Chrono/Mana/Phantasy Star/Tales games had left it behind.

DQ has made huge strides in recent years, no question, but it has perhaps 2 entries out of 8 that can stand toe-to-toe with the best FF has to offer. And I would argue those two would rank in the bottom half of the five best games in both series combined, perhaps even outside of the top five depending on how you feel about FFVIII and X. It seems to me that everyone is saying "DQ's last game was good, I didn't like FFXII, so DQ is better" which makes zero sense whatsoever. You have to consider the entire legacy of a series and also be careful not to forget why FFX and XII were disappointing to you. Was it because they were absolutely awful? No (most haters say mediocre), it was because other FF games had a much bigger effect on us. DQ8 had no such competition within its own series. Its hurdle was miles below what FFXII had to top and that's significant.

I don't understand why it's so popular to bag on FF these days. It's like those who dislike FFVII/VIII because of the new direction have formed a crazy alliance with the VII/VIII fans who couldn't stand the direction of X/XII. I'm honestly puzzled about how these two sides can agree the entire franchise is lost when they disagree so vehemently about its high point. Maybe X and XII are, you know, actually really good but they appeal to a different group than either IV-VI and VII/VIII. But that's just crazy talk I suppose. FF's greatest strength, to me, is how the franchise has so many games that can appeal to so many different types of people and interests. Fans of IV don't have to love VII, and fans of VII don't have to love XII, but every one of those people can look back and say Final Fantasy delivered a great time they won't soon forget. Can DQ boast that kind of legacy? No, it can't. And that's why, to me, it is clearly a tier below what FF has accomplished. DQ comes in one flavor, FF has mastered several.

[Smokey]

:stfu: Tell you go play an original Final Fantasy game Smokey END OF TOPIC! There teenagers they have fought in wars in our history book! Just because your old doesn't mean you get the only respect that's bull ****! :stfu:

This is completely irrelevant. Stop bringing it up.

Finlay this Fantasy not our own world if you don't like something don't play it, I love seeing young peolpe save the world because they have done it in our history them self's in the real world! DAEL WITH IT! Agree to disagree and move on. I loved TOS as the best RPG of last generation and as a sold title I will never back down on it greatness!

Have you read anything I've posted? I mean, not just registered the fact that they're there, but actually read any of my posts?

1) Children have a place in games
2) Some games take that to an extreme
3) Such games are bad
4) I love Tales of Symphonia despite the prevalence of child protagonists
5) Real-world examples of young people in history are completely irrelevant to this conversation. Move on.

How can any of compare a comedy RPG to a series RPG is beyond me they don’t compare at all. Again I did try to back down a little in saying I’m sick of comedy personally but whatever don’t responded if you can’t make a good argument fanboy.

You bag on me for not liking a game being overrun by children, then you turn around and say that you hate Dragon Quest because it's FUNNY? Hypocrisy much?

[Nismo]

The reason Dragon Quest continues to improve is because it was so archaic in the first place. DQ8 is so revered because it finally embraced the current era of RPGs for a franchise that was stuck in the dark ages. Even if you dislike FFVII and VIII the FF series as a whole obliterated everything DQ accomplished up to that point in time. DQ was only relevant in a single country in the entire world and that is no coincidence. It had a ravenous fanbase who bought the franchise based on its mystique there while the rest of the world couldn't overlook how the FF/Chrono/Mana/Phantasy Star/Tales games had left it behind.

DQ has made huge strides in recent years, no question, but it has perhaps 2 entries out of 8 that can stand toe-to-toe with the best FF has to offer. And I would argue those two would rank in the bottom half of the five best games in both series combined, perhaps even outside of the top five depending on how you feel about FFVIII and X. It seems to me that everyone is saying "DQ's last game was good, I didn't like FFXII, so DQ is better" which makes zero sense whatsoever. You have to consider the entire legacy of a series and also be careful not to forget why FFX and XII were disappointing to you. Was it because they were absolutely awful? No (most haters say mediocre), it was because other FF games had a much bigger effect on us. DQ8 had no such competition within its own series. Its hurdle was miles below what FFXII had to top and that's significant.

I don't understand why it's so popular to bag on FF these days. It's like those who dislike FFVII/VIII because of the new direction have formed a crazy alliance with the VII/VIII fans who couldn't stand the direction of X/XII. I'm honestly puzzled about how these two sides can agree the entire franchise is lost when they disagree so vehemently about its high point. Maybe X and XII are, you know, actually really good but they appeal to a different group than either IV-VI and VII/VIII. But that's just crazy talk I suppose. FF's greatest strength, to me, is how the franchise has so many games that can appeal to so many different types of people and interests. Fans of IV don't have to love VII, and fans of VII don't have to love XII, but every one of those people can look back and say Final Fantasy delivered a great time they won't soon forget. Can DQ boast that kind of legacy? No, it can't. And that's why, to me, it is clearly a tier below what FF has accomplished. DQ comes in one flavor, FF has mastered several.

I can agree with you to some extent. Nowadays, it seems most games don't give us that WOW factor like the first couple FFs did. FFX and FFXII were not bad games, they just didn't deliver the ultimate weapon blow many thought the games would. Is it because of the new direction? Is it because RPGs in general have grown faster then then FF series has? It has yet to be determined or even cared about.

DQ was a series that was only in Japan for most of it's life with the occasional Dragon Warriors we had here (which were DQ). All I'm trying to say is, the DQ series continues to maintain what made the game fun in the first place. The game continues to follow the same path and that is why the Japanese love it including many American/European RPG fans.

I am not degrading the FF series, it is a great series and many of the games had an awesome impact on me. I welcome change, I play them regardless, and for the most part I at least liked them all.

Best part is, out of your entire post, you failed to mention Final Fantasy IX. The true ugly duckling of the bunch!

[JValone]

Best part is, out of your entire post, you failed to mention Final Fantasy IX. The true ugly duckling of the bunch!

Uh......actually I spent several posts defending FFIX in this very thread. And I consider it the best FF ever. The reason I didn't mention it is because it doesn't seem to have a very organized group of haters. VII and VIII get organized hate, so do X and XII, IX really doesn't. Sure, there are many people such as yourself who dislike it personally but there isn't an extremely vocal group against FFIX. Partially it's because the game is excellent, but I also think it doesn't have any key love-em or hate-em points (shift in focus, battle system, whiny protagonists, etc.) that rile up the base the way FFVII, VIII, X and XII do.

Also, about FFIX being the ugly duckling of the series: You're wrong. Unless today is opposite day. That is all.

[Darc Requiem]

In my opinion you named only two bad Final Fantasy titles but all of the above stand above Dragon Oust as series that will not fix simple mistakes.

Begin constant in the same combat fully holds the series back from evolving or improving even slightly. Playing the same game 100% the way the last once did is no fun at all and gets beyond retentive fast. Dragon Ousts mistake is not changing the boss strategy to involved real tactics. It’s as simple as level up by power leveling and beat down the boss if your strong souly. That worked in the 8 Bit era where in a 3D world now. Why does Final Fantasy's worst stand above Dragon in full? Simple even in the 8 bit era it had tactics to it's boss fights.

Final Fantasy makes power level and learn to tactics for every boss, meaning some wimp that stands they’re twenty for seven leveling up can’t win on that souly. I’m not saying there better because I what to I’m just telling the truth Dragon Quest doesn’t make you fill rewarded in anything about it’s combat.

How can any of compare a comedy RPG to a series RPG is beyond me they don’t compare at all. Again I did try to back down a little in saying I’m sick of comedy personally but whatever don’t responded if you can’t make a good argument fanboy.

You are shifting the argument. Did you not say the worst games in the Final Fantasy series are better than the best games of the Dragon Quest series? Dragon Quest isn't even one of my favorite franchises. I bought DQVII for PS1 and it bored me to death, I popped in FFIX and never looked back. Even though the series has gone to hell over the past 11 years, I think the FF series is better than the DQ series. I just don't think the worst FF games are better than the best DQ games.

[Nismo]

Uh......actually I spent several posts defending FFIX in this very thread. And I consider it the best FF ever. The reason I didn't mention it is because it doesn't seem to have a very organized group of haters. VII and VIII get organized hate, so do X and XII, IX really doesn't. Sure, there are many people such as yourself who dislike it personally but there isn't an extremely vocal group against FFIX. Partially it's because the game is excellent, but I also think it doesn't have any key love-em or hate-em points (shift in focus, battle system, whiny protagonists, etc.) that rile up the base the way FFVII, VIII, X and XII do.

Also, about FFIX being the ugly duckling of the series: You're wrong. Unless today is opposite day. That is all.

I didn't go that far back, just meant that one post I quoted.

But good news, today is the opposite of opposite day: bi-polar stress relief day where everyone's nerves and different sides get all tangled up in the war room :yay:

Yeah, I thought FFIX was the worst of all since it was the one I enjoyed the least and pretty much let me down when it was released. Granted I was 14 when the game came out and you tend to grow up, but that kind of hate sticks with you. Take it for what its worth. It really pisses me off when the end boss was the most random dude in the world that came out of nowhere. To this day I go back and load my save to see that douche just to remind myself how random a game can be.

I could care less if people hated the games I liked and vice versa, in the end like always, to each his own.

[MikeWolfskin]

This is completely irrelevant. Stop bringing it up.



Have you read anything I've posted? I mean, not just registered the fact that they're there, but actually read any of my posts?

1) Children have a place in games
2) Some games take that to an extreme
3) Such games are bad
4) I love Tales of Symphonia despite the prevalence of child protagonists
5) Real-world examples of young people in history are completely irrelevant to this conversation. Move on.



You bag on me for not liking a game being overrun by children, then you turn around and say that you hate Dragon Quest because it's FUNNY? Hypocrisy much?

It is relevant, GET THE HELL OUT OF THIS THREAD UNLESS WHERE TALKING ABOUT DRAGON OUST AND FINAL FANTASY!

[Nismo]

^ No it's not relevant. Sorry to butt in, but Smokey has every right to say he doesn't like a game be it FF or DQ because of the overrun of child protagonists. Deal with it already, I gotta go through pages of this continuously because you can't deal with someones opinion. Stop, in the name of love!!! Before you break my heartttt!

[MikeWolfskin]

^ No it's not relevant. Sorry to butt in, but Smokey has every right to say he doesn't like a game be it FF or DQ because of the overrun of child protagonists. Deal with it already, I gotta go through pages of this continuously because you can't deal with someones opinion. Stop, in the name of love!!! Before you break my heartttt!

No he is fighting with me about something that is not about the topic. He has has not played any original Final Fantasy game so no he does not have the right to opinion. He is going by word of other peoples opinion not his own.

[Smokey]

Nismo iz teh supremez.:P

No he is fighting with me about something that is not about the topic. He has has not played any orginal FF game so not he does have the right.

It DID start out on topic. Then you started pulling the young people in today's war shtick and then how I haven't played any original FF. BTW, your "no original=no opinion" argument is bull****. I've played plenty of FF games; I don't care if you don't like them, that doesn't give you the right to invalidate my opinion simply because I haven't played your favorite FF games. You're coming off as some elitist prick and I don't really care for it.

[MikeWolfskin]

Nismo iz teh supremez.:P

You haven't played the mother ****ing games so you have no opinion!

[Smokey]

*Sigh* You're right. I haven't played FFIV, so I lack any ability to reason at all, especially enough to form any kind of opinion whatsoever. My bad.:rolleyes:

[virion]

*Sigh* You're right. I haven't played FFIV, so I lack any ability to reason at all, especially enough to form any kind of opinion whatsoever. My bad.:rolleyes:

smokey.. he's right. you have to play final fantasy IV.. not only because it's a solid rpg, but to also have an opinion in this thread.

[MikeWolfskin]

*Sigh* You're right. I haven't played FFIV, so I lack any ability to reason at all, especially enough to form any kind of opinion whatsoever. My bad.:rolleyes:

You have yet to play Final Fantasy I, Final Fantasy II, Final Fantasy III, Final Fantasy IV, Final Fantasy V, Final Fantasy VI, and Final Fantasy IX!

[JValone]

I didn't go that far back, just meant that one post I quoted.

But good news, today is the opposite of opposite day: bi-polar stress relief day where everyone's nerves and different sides get all tangled up in the war room :yay:

Yeah, I thought FFIX was the worst of all since it was the one I enjoyed the least and pretty much let me down when it was released. Granted I was 14 when the game came out and you tend to grow up, but that kind of hate sticks with you. Take it for what its worth. It really pisses me off when the end boss was the most random dude in the world that came out of nowhere. To this day I go back and load my save to see that douche just to remind myself how random a game can be.

I could care less if people hated the games I liked and vice versa, in the end like always, to each his own.

My last sentence "You're wrong. That is all." was meant more in jest than anything else. I couldn't tell if you took it that way or not, but just in case I figured I'd clarify. I'd already defended FFIX a few pages back so I didn't think I needed to repeat myself, if you cared you'd look and if you didn't you wouldn't. I don't mind different opinions, your final boss critique is valid but I tend to believe the whole of the game's parts allows it to overcome that slight deficiency. At the time it actually kind of delighted me, as it was an obvious throwback to FFIV, but if fan service connections like that don't make you smile it would be a pretty poor design choice.

FF is one of the few series where separate games make people like them for very different reasons. Unlike something like Zelda when the argument is which has the best dungeons or weapons, elements the entire series has in common. I can understand why someone who really liked FFVII and VIII wouldn't find IX very enticing. Same for those who lived IV-VI despising VII and VIII but loving IX. I tend to like all the games in the series, even XII which is my least favorite modern FF I'd consider a very worthwhile RPG.

[Smokey]

smokey.. he's right. you have to play final fantasy IV.. not only because it's a solid rpg, but to also have an opinion in this thread.

I seriously hope you're joking. 'Cause you can't be serious. This isn't the Final Fantasy IV thread, or the Final Fantasy II thread, no, not even the Final Fantasy IX thread. There are no conditions you must fulfill for this thread in order to participate except to know what Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy are. Now, would I mind playing FFIV? Sure, I'd like to play it someday. The fact that I have yet to play it doesn't mean I can't play with youse guys.

You have yet to play Final Fantasy I, Final Fantasy II, Final Fantasy III, Final Fantasy IV, Final Fantasy V, Final Fantasy VI, and Final Fantasy IX!

I'm well aware of the games I have and have not played. Give me that much credit.

P.S.- Get over it.

[MikeWolfskin]

I seriously hope you're joking. 'Cause you can't be serious. This isn't the Final Fantasy IV thread, or the Final Fantasy II thread, no, not even the Final Fantasy IX thread. There are no conditions you must fulfill for this thread in order to participate except to know what Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy are. Now, would I mind playing FFIV? Sure, I'd like to play it someday. The fact that I have yet to play it doesn't mean I can't play with youse guys.



I'm well aware of the games I have and have not played. Give me that much credit.

P.S.- Get over it.


Your the one that needs to get over it and get out of a topic you have no right to an opinion on deal with it.

[MR EPIC]

Do we need to start giving people infractions?

[Nismo]

My last sentence "You're wrong. That is all." was meant more in jest than anything else. I couldn't tell if you took it that way or not, but just in case I figured I'd clarify. I'd already defended FFIX a few pages back so I didn't think I needed to repeat myself, if you cared you'd look and if you didn't you wouldn't. I don't mind different opinions, your final boss critique is valid but I tend to believe the whole of the game's parts allows it to overcome that slight deficiency. At the time it actually kind of delighted me, as it was an obvious throwback to FFIV, but if fan service connections like that don't make you smile it would be a pretty poor design choice.

FF is one of the few series where separate games make people like them for very different reasons. Unlike something like Zelda when the argument is which has the best dungeons or weapons, elements the entire series has in common. I can understand why someone who really liked FFVII and VIII wouldn't find IX very enticing. Same for those who lived IV-VI despising VII and VIII but loving IX. I tend to like all the games in the series, even XII which is my least favorite modern FF I'd consider a very worthwhile RPG.

Ah yes, I was doing nothing more but agreeing to disagree. Like I said, I own them all, some even multiple times, and lI have different likes towards different ones with IX being my least favorite. I mean, I bought IX on release date with what little cash I made from the gas station I worked at when I was 14 and I actually invested over 40 hours into IX, that means I at least did have some sort of enjoyment out of it. It just wasn't one of my favorites. All the FF are solid games, I wouldn't own them if they weren't. I see what your saying and I agree for the most part, I am in no way trying to get you angry or anything. Just stating my opinion on what I like and dislike, that is all.

[HGW XX/7]

You don't need to have played every game in the series to completion to know if you like it or not. If you don't like it, that'd be a waste of time. As long as you have some kind of experience with it you can have an opinion on it.

Hell you can have an opinion even if you don't have an experience with something. It'll just be an uninformed opinion.

[Smokey]

^Thank you. Since this is not a discussion on any one FF game, I most certainly have a right to participate in this thread.

[MikeWolfskin]

^Thank you. Since this is not a discussion on any one FF game, I most certainly have a right to participate in this thread.

Look here enough of this, I've played Final Fantasy endlessly more then you and your argument is on if a game you've not played is childish or not. If it's not you need to stop because the topic is Dragon Oust VS Final Fantasy not if children in gaming destroy gaming.

The only reason I don't respect your opinion is because you have not played a real Final Fantasy game! Don't keep speaking badly about a set of titles you've not played my friend.

If you what to agree with Viron then go play Final Fantasy IX. I highly recommended this title to Epic some years ago and he is also a believer. I can't tell you enough of how wonderful that title or how much playing Final Fantasy III, Final Fantasy IV, Final Fantasy VI, and Final Fantasy IX is to understand what the series is really about!

I was talking about this last night after the Podcast with my brother and we both agreed there is five perfectly killer Final Fantasy! They are

Final Fantasy IV, Final Fantasy VI, Final Fantasy VII, and Final Fantasy IX, and Final Fantasy X.


Hell you can have an opinion even if you don't have an experience with something. It'll just be an uninformed opinion.

That is not an opinion it's ignorance!

[Smokey]

Look here enough of this, I've played Final Fantasy endlessly more then you and your argument is on if a game you've not played is childish or not. If it's not you need to stop because the topic is Dragon Oust VS Final Fantasy not if children in gaming destroy gaming.

If you walk away from this discussion with only one thing, let it be this: I NEVER SAID FFIX WAS A KIDDY GAME. MY ARGUMENT HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DAMN GAME.

As for my opinion on children in games, it's just that: my opinion. You don't have to like it, nor do you have to approve of it. Clearly you believe differently than me. That's dandy. We can each have our own opinion and still participate in a civil discussion. It isn't a life-or-death issue we're debating here. It's Final ****ing Fantasy, for crying out loud.

The only reason I don't respect your opinion is because you have not played a real Final Fantasy game! Don't keep speaking badly about a set of titles you've not played my friend.

I'm not trashing any FF game here. And again, your definition of a "real" FF game is highly subjective and based on your personal opinion, and we already know that I disagree with it, so that's all that needs to be said there.

If you what to agree with Viron then go play Final Fantasy IX. I highly recommended this title to Epic some years ago and he is also a believer. I can't tell you enough of how wonderful that title or how much playing Final Fantasy III, Final Fantasy IV, Final Fantasy VI, and Final Fantasy IX is to understand what the series is really about!

Look, I don't agree with Virion. Virion is the one with the issue about FFIX, not me. You misunderstood my intent and I have since explained myself. Let's just leave this particular issue at that, okay?

I was talking about this last night after the Podcast with my brother and we both agreed there is five perfectly killer Final Fantasy! They are

Final Fantasy IV, Final Fantasy VI, Final Fantasy VII, and Final Fantasy IX, and Final Fantasy X.

Well then, by your definition, I have played two of your five "real" Final Fantasy games. So can I play wif yous guyz, nao?

[MikeWolfskin]

If you walk away from this discussion with only one thing, let it be this: I NEVER SAID FFIX WAS A KIDDY GAME. MY ARGUMENT HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DAMN GAME.

Then don't talking something that is not on topic. The topic at is " Dragon Quest vs Final Fantasy - Fight!" Don't talk about anything else.


As for my opinion on children in games, it's just that: my opinion. You don't have to like it, nor do you have to approve of it. Clearly you believe differently than me. That's dandy. We can each have our own opinion and still participate in a civil discussion. It isn't a life-or-death issue we're debating here. It's Final ****ing Fantasy, for crying out loud.


This discussion here is not about what your telling me above, it's clearly about " Dragon Quest vs Final Fantasy - Fight!"


I'm not trashing any FF game here. And again, your definition of a "real" FF game is highly subjective and based on your personal opinion, and we already know that I disagree with it, so that's all that needs to be said there.


If you not trash Final Fantasy then you sound off topic to me. Once more the topic at hand is " Dragon Quest vs Final Fantasy - Fight!".


Look, I don't agree with Virion. Virion is the one with the issue about FFIX, not me. You misunderstood my intent and I have since explained myself. Let's just leave this particular issue at that, okay?

^ See above about on topic of " Dragon Quest vs Final Fantasy - Fight!"


Well then, by your definition, I have played two of your five "real"" Final Fantasy games. So can I play wif yous guyz, nao?

Nope you've yet to play an original part of the series if you had played Final Fantasy III, or Final Fantasy IV, or Final Fantasy IV I'd have nothing more to say to you. You like anyone now I'm the most hardcore Final Fantasy nut on the boards. The list you quoted is the best five Final Fantasy games not my list of what an Original Final Fantasy game is about. Reread my post above.

I'll make clear for you anyone who has not played two of the following numbers doesn't really understand the series.

Final Fantasy I - Final Fantasy VI or Final Fantasy IX!

[Smokey]

Screw this, I don't have the patience to ride this merry-go-round anymore. I'm outta here.

[MR EPIC]

I agree Smokey. Let's just end this thread by acknowledging that Dragon Quest is a better and more consistent series than Final Fantasy and leave it at that. Dragon Quest 8 was the best RPG of last generation and Dragon Quest 4 is apparently the best RPG on the DS. DQ series wins.

[HGW XX/7]

Pokemon > Dragon Quest.