The HD Revolution. Conspiracy?

[ReaganYouth]

VHS to DVD is a completely different story. Blu-Ray, based on what I've heard, only offers minimal improvements over DVD. That's why I'm reluctant to get behind Blu-Ray or HD-DVD, because at this point it seems like little more than forced change from corporations out to make a quick buck by making everybody re-buy all of their movies.

EDIT : Let's begin from here. Since a lot of the posts before still held with the original topic. - HGW XX/7

[HGW XX/7]

VHS to DVD is a completely different story. Blu-Ray, based on what I've heard, only offers minimal improvements over DVD. That's why I'm reluctant to get behind Blu-Ray or HD-DVD, because at this point it seems like little more than forced change from corporations out to make a quick buck by making everybody re-buy all of their movies.

The boost from DVD to HD-DVD/Blu-Ray is definitely noticeable, and will become a standard. Though I believe downloaded movies will be more popular by the time it's standard.

1080P HD Movies >>>>>>>>>>>>>DVD Movies. Casino Royale on Blu-Ray is the most impressive thing I've seen, and it's the only one I've seen in 1080P.

Every other HD movie I've seen was 720P, which is still better than DVD.

[ReaganYouth]

But unlike VHS to DVD, I can't justify making the switch until they stop producing DVD movies/players. I'm not a big fan of the idea of constantly re-buying things I already have.

[Monkeylord]

DVD is double the resolution of VHS - the main revolution was the menu system, extras, surround sound and ease of use. Not having to rewind, being able to instantly jump to a scene and (if your DVD player supported the feature) being able to store cue points to instantly jump to unchaptered portions of a movie.

HD-DVD/Bluray is 4 times the resoultion and up to 7.1 (or is it 8.1?) surround sound. The difference even at 720p (only about double the resolution of DVD) is phenominal and instantly noticable.

No-one is forced to rebuy anything due to the added bonus of competant upscaling software included in all HD-DVD and Bluray drives so if anyone rebuys a movie it's because they want to.


Seriously, find somewhere with a properly calibrated HDTV (hell, even the stores with the retina burning settings on their display HDTV's would do the trick) and actually get someone to display some HD content to you. Most places have a DVD running as a sampler, demand actual HD content. You can't fail to see the iimprovment offered, seriously!

[ReaganYouth]

DVD is double the resolution of VHS - the main revolution was the menu system, extras, surround sound and ease of use. Not having to rewind, being able to instantly jump to a scene and (if your DVD player supported the feature) being able to store cue points to instantly jump to unchaptered portions of a movie.

HD-DVD/Bluray is 4 times the resoultion and up to 7.1 (or is it 8.1?) surround sound. The difference even at 720p (only about double the resolution of DVD) is phenominal and instantly noticable.

No-one is forced to rebuy anything due to the added bonus of competant upscaling software included in all HD-DVD and Bluray drives so if anyone rebuys a movie it's because they want to.


Seriously, find somewhere with a properly calibrated HDTV (hell, even the stores with the retina burning settings on their display HDTV's would do the trick) and actually get someone to display some HD content to you. Most places have a DVD running as a sampler, demand actual HD content. You can't fail to see the iimprovment offered, seriously!

Oh, so I don't have to re-buy my movies after all?

That changes things, then.

[HGW XX/7]

Oh, so I don't have to re-buy my movies after all?

That changes things, then.


Make sure the player supports upscaling.

PS3's and XBOX 360 HD-DVD Add-Ons support upscaling if you use HDMI.

[Rensa]

It's funny... I used to run my consoles on a tiny little 576i tube with composite cables, and I was happy. When my family picked up a new 1080p LCD telly, though, I really noticed the blurring on my Wii. Switched to composite 480p and it looks gorgeous; I wouldn't want to use composite on it anymore. But I'd still be happy to play on the tiny telly if I had to.

I'm all for developers spending effort on visuals, but I could never agree to an idea like a person not being a real gamer if they didn't play on an HD set or sommat.

[Tanooki]

Wasn't this about gaming elists behavior problems and entitlement issues? :) If I were a mod I'd break those posts off into a new thread as it's a good discussion of its own.

[Lizzaroni]

And I would appreciate it if you guys would stop talking to me like I'm a close-minded fanboy, because I'm not. K?
I would appreciate it if you stopped taking everything as an attack.

[ReaganYouth]

I would appreciate it if you stopped taking everything as an attack.

It's more the fact that you brought up the Wii and Nintendo's philosophy when my argument had nothing to do with it.

[MR EPIC]

HGW - Casino Royale was my first Blu-Ray disc and both the movie and quality are made of nothing but WIN.

Now since my 1080p set was broken I'm back playing games on my JVC I Art, which for an SDTV isn't bad, and even though I've been used to HD for nearly 10 years now I'm not crying about having to go back to DVDs and SD gaming for a while.

Reagan - I'm not convinced that Liz was talking to you directly with that post you keep bringing up. I could be wrong but I thought it was a direct response to Jeff's post about not forcing the HD standard on people.

[ReaganYouth]

No, I'm pretty sure it was directed at me.

[MAX]

I'd be hesitant to say that Bluray is the standard. DVD still outsells Bluray by a wide margin, if I'm not mistaken.

[Smokey]

Agreed, but the time when it will be standard isn't far off.

[Smokey]

Hey, where's my post, dammit?

I love how this thread keeps branching off and new threads are made for it.:P

[HGW XX/7]

Wasn't this about gaming elists behavior problems and entitlement issues? :) If I were a mod I'd break those posts off into a new thread as it's a good discussion of its own.

Thanks. I hadn't moved posts in threads before, so I had to look through my options. This should do though. I would have moved more posts, but a lot of it still had to do with elitism as far as HD as part of a console.

And dammit, Smokey. You made that right as I was moving the rest!

[MR EPIC]

I'd be hesitant to say that Bluray is the standard. DVD still outsells Bluray by a wide margin, if I'm not mistaken.

Not when DVD players are discontinued they won't.

[DEATHSTAR]

I'm of the belief that by the time Blu-Ray trumps DVD in sales we'll likely see another format emerge. I don't have any confidence that Blu-Ray will be a standard for long if at all.

[MR EPIC]

I think everything is going to be stored on one big HDD and DLed.

[MAX]

Not when DVD players are discontinued they won't.

I'm not talking when, I'm talking now. It'll be a while before DVD players are discontinued, especially when DVD sells quite a bit more than bluray. I believe that by the time bluray overtakes DVD (big if, imo), we'll have gone on to another physical media, or complete streaming (read: no physical media).

[thegamecubist]

You can see the difference, but entertainment revolution this is not. Having gone from playing 360/PS3 at 1080i and then going to 480i, the clarity difference is huge, but I can live.

I used to think the whole cabling thing was a whole load of crow, but after even playing mere PS2 games over component instead of composite, the different is astounding. Sharper colours, text, everything. And I'm only using it on a 480i set!

[Smokey]

Thanks. I hadn't moved posts in threads before, so I had to look through my options. This should do though. I would have moved more posts, but a lot of it still had to do with elitism as far as HD as part of a console.

And dammit, Smokey. You made that right as I was moving the rest!

And you call yourself a mod. Hah!

http://cdn2.youplusplus.com/bs/big.561162.jpg

;)

[HGW XX/7]

Somebody else called me a mod first! :P

[Smokey]

Good point.

Dammit, John!

http://cdn2.youplusplus.com/bs/big.561162.jpg

[Tanooki]

Honestly perhaps dvd players of the standard nature will get canned in a few years, but I don't see cheap upscaled dvd players going away anytime soon. Normal people aren't going to quite give a damn if BR has 4x the resolution or whatever, just technophiles and cinemaphiles will and they're not the majority. I mean it was just a few years ago people finally ended up stuffing a few releases still (and delayed) onto VHS of all things and some people just in the last few years moved up to DVD. That said too, most people don't have HDTVs either so they won't notice the difference I imagine either all that well making that a useless fight too until you can get it to where HD sets are only made.

I'd say for most upscaled DVDs will suffice plenty enough, and by the time that won't cut it someone will have a blue ray replacement on the market or damn near it possibly. The one thing I dread is everything going digital distro as that there is the end of peoples rights to physically own a copy of something as I want nothing much to do with that at all if possible.

[Lizzaroni]

But unlike VHS to DVD, I can't justify making the switch until they stop producing DVD movies/players. I'm not a big fan of the idea of constantly re-buying things I already have.
Do you not remember the shift from VHS to DVD? VHS didn't disappear overnight, and DVD won't until they quite literally become obsolete. That is, companies are not going to simply stop producing them because Blu-Ray won the format war; there are still many people out there who rely on DVD players. When more people get around to buying Blu-Ray players, DVDs will no longer be profitable, but it won't matter because the reasoning behind ceasing their production is that so few people are demanding them (in other words, no one is getting "shafted" because it was their very consumption habits that dictated this change.) Calling this a conspiracy makes about as much sense as calling the transportation revolution a conspiracy because eventually horse and buggy was phased out.

The nice thing about this particular change is that VHS to DVD required abandoning your VHS collection altogether, or rigorously maintaining your VCR. DVDs, on the other hand, might be lower quality but physically do not differ that significantly. So far as I know, you will still be able to play your DVDs and will not need to replace them with Blu-Rays so long as you do not mind that they will not be as high a quality as Blu-Ray.

Edit: It's more the fact that you brought up the Wii and Nintendo's philosophy when my argument had nothing to do with it.
Nintendo was brought up numerous times in that thread. I'm not out to get you and, quite frankly, were it not for your incessant whining I might forget you post here altogether.

[ReaganYouth]

Do you not remember the shift from VHS to DVD? VHS didn't disappear overnight, and DVD won't until they quite literally become obsolete. That is, companies are not going to simply stop producing them because Blu-Ray won the format war; there are still many people out there who rely on DVD players. When more people get around to buying Blu-Ray players, DVDs will no longer be profitable, but it won't matter because the reasoning behind ceasing their production is that so few people are demanding them (in other words, no one is getting "shafted" because it was their very consumption habits that dictated this change.) Calling this a conspiracy makes about as much sense as calling the transportation revolution a conspiracy because eventually horse and buggy was phased out.

The nice thing about this particular change is that VHS to DVD required abandoning your VHS collection altogether, or rigorously maintaining your VCR. DVDs, on the other hand, might be lower quality but physically do not differ that significantly. So far as I know, you will still be able to play your DVDs and will not need to replace them with Blu-Rays so long as you do not mind that they will not be as high a quality as Blu-Ray.

Edit:
Nintendo was brought up numerous times in that thread. I'm not out to get you and, quite frankly, were it not for your incessant whining I might forget you post here altogether.

I'll come up with something for the first few paragraphs tomorrow (tired). But as for the last bit, I never brought up Nintendo in this thread, at least not that I can remember. Maybe others did, but I didn't. Except maybe when I praised Ocarina of Time for being a beautiful game, which it still is and always will be in my heart. But that had nothing to do with Blu-Ray or graphics or anything (it was mostly nostalgia).

Anyway, I was having a bad day yesterday, and I was drunk for much of it. As much as I hate making excuses, I hate having the mods on my ass even more.

[MR EPIC]

Jeff - I agree that a lot of people aren't into Blu-Ray just yet, however they are into high definition and regardless will be forced to watch at least digital signals (480p) as of February of next year. Plus many of the networks out there are already broadcasting in 1080i, so if people are going to record their favorite shows they are going to have to do so by means of an HD source. In that case DVDs just won't cut it and I'd say that the people with upscaled DVD players will slowly start to become the minority at that time.

[Lucas]

The resolution differences are clearly noticable. I love counting the hairs on people's heads thanks the clarity of the picture, but the thing that gets me about Blu-Ray is the fluidity. Full 60FPS movies are just sickeningly sweet. The Batman Begins and Casino Royale Blu-Ray discs on my PS3 are just sick. HD sports and the HD Olympics on NBC have been amazing. More so than the resolution, I just enjoy the 16:9 frame and the digital surround sound standard over the air. There really isn't any going back once you've gone HD.

I'm saving up for a 1080p digital projector. It will be forever before I can afford it, but I imagine Blu-Ray from my PS3 + digital 1080p projector + giant white walls will equal cinematic heaven.

[Lizzaroni]

omg I wish my TV wasn't so small! Everything looks great, but on something top of the line and really big............ahhHH!!

[HGW XX/7]

I'll come up with something for the first few paragraphs tomorrow (tired). But as for the last bit, I never brought up Nintendo in this thread, at least not that I can remember. Maybe others did, but I didn't. Except maybe when I praised Ocarina of Time for being a beautiful game, which it still is and always will be in my heart. But that had nothing to do with Blu-Ray or graphics or anything (it was mostly nostalgia).

Anyway, I was having a bad day yesterday, and I was drunk for much of it. As much as I hate making excuses, I hate having the mods on my ass even more.

Remember, this thread was split off a thread which was split off a thread.

So some posts might contain a little bit referring to the other threads. I tried to keep them mostly on topic to here though.

[ReaganYouth]

I never said anything about Nintendo when referring to Blu-Ray/HDTV's though. I commented on Ocarina of Time, but that's it. So I was miffed when they tried to attribute my criticism of both formats to Nintendo fanboyism, when it had nothing to do with that at all.

[Lizzaroni]

I..........never attributed anything to fanboyism.

[ReaganYouth]

^It seemed like you were.

[HGW XX/7]

Yeah, It seems more like she was saying people just need to take their balls out of their purse and step-up to HD.

Also, I do believe you're probably taking things a bit too personally Reagan.

[ReaganYouth]

Yeah, It seems more like she was saying people just need to take their balls out of their purse and step-up to HD.

Also, I do believe you're probably taking things a bit too personally Reagan.

Perhaps, but I don't like being talked down to or degraded, that's all. And that's what it felt like she was doing. Remember what happened with me and ML?

[HGW XX/7]

Perhaps, but I don't like being talked down to or degraded, that's all. And that's what it felt like she was doing. Remember what happened with me and ML?

I don't recall something between you and Monkeylord. It doesn't need to be brought up here, but feel free to PM me.

"It's HDTV! It's got better resolution than real life!"

[ReaganYouth]

I don't recall something between you and Monkeylord. It doesn't need to be brought up here, but feel free to PM me.

"It's HDTV! It's got better resolution than real life!"

It was a long time ago, but I was just bring it up as an example of how I don't like feeling lower than anyone else.

But yeah, back on topic.

[Rensa]

I would expect a major turning point for DVDs to be when countries start phasing out the analogue signals over the next few years. Blu-ray growth is driven exclusively by demand for HD film content (unlike DVDs, which, as Liz noted had a variety of factors going for them: interactivity, better form, etc.), which is available only to those with new sets. While HD sets started hitting mainstream price points a while back, there should be a significant jump when the analogue signals phase out, as people are forced to choose between a set-top box and a new set. Although many of those who are actively interested in a new set will have already bought one, many more are just running their old sets out 'til they're useless and will no doubt spend just a few hundred more for a modest digital set. Then again, depending on how this demographic is skewed, this could actually result in a greater boost for DVDs than Blu-ray.

I expect DVDs to linger for much longer after the rise of Blu-ray than VHS tapes did after DVD. Although the half-life of formats is usually contracting, DVDs are backwards compatible with Blu-Ray (again, as Liz pointed out). This means the two will exist in parallel for quite a while, much more like data CDs and DVDs on computers.