Sound Off - Silicon Knights Departs From Nintendo

[Phillip-AMN]

Hell fellas,

GCA wants to hear your thoughts on today's Silicon Knights news. If you haven't heard, I'll go ahead and break it down for you.

The developer will be leaving Nintendo's side as a second-party, and it will now be developing for other platforms, including the GameCube posssibly.

With this said, here comes my request.

We're looking for a few readers' opinion on the matter. We'll be posting a feature on the site called "Readers Sound Off: Silicon Knights Leaves Nintendo" in a few days, where we'll take the most intelligent, well-thought-out and grammatically correct responses from this thread and post them on GCA with your name attached to your response.

So, let's get this started.

QUESTION: What do you think of the news of Silicon Knights and Nintendo splitting up? Is this good news for Nintendo? Bad news for Silicon Knights? Vice versa? Or maybe a bit of both? Let us know what you think of the break up between the two below.

Again, use good grammar and spelling, as we'll only be using the most intelligent posts.

Cheers,
GCA Team.

[koten]

Personly I feel this will be a disaster for both companies. Nintendo is losing it's only source of GOOD mature games, while Silicon Knights is losing it's great ally Nintendo. If you recall SK said that they joined up with Nintendo because they game them flexible work scheduals for ideas that would be worked in, where as other publishers demanded the game as soon as possible. Thusly I feel that SK games quality will suffer, while Nintendo is forced into a further lack of game releases.

[BigBroMario]

I think it's bad news for Nintendo, good news for SK, and of course, terrible news for us loyal Nintendo fans. We were given two outstanding, exclusive titles from Silicon Knights. I was looking forward for the next title to come from SK, now I don't know what to think. I really hope this is a lie or some kind of joke, but I'm starting to doubt it. Why would Nintendo let them go? With this action, Nintendo does a good thing for SK by letting them sell their games to a wider audience, but at the same time Nintendo is helping their competitors.

- Andy "BigBroMario" Walker

[MoN]

If they still develop for Nintendo, who cares? I hope they develop for Xbox, too. That'd be cool. Too Human on Xbox...yay.

[Engineer_J]

well you see how well Left Field's MTX Mototrax sold for them.... 19.99 already.

[OutlawAdidas]

Did we want Too Human on the Xbox? NO! We wanted Too Human on the GCNext.

[BigBroMario]

IMO, that that would suck, having Too Human exclusive on a Nintendo console could shoot down a lot of the "Nintendo is kiddy" comments.

[koten]

What are you stupid or something? The Nintendo is kiddy image is something that most die, mostly because there are gamers out there who can see past graphics and into gameplay

[bountyhunter]

If this is true, then it realy sucks for everyone. It's obviouse that exclusive games get more atention, so if SK's games go multi-platform, then that's going to hit them. As for nintendo, I realy don't see it hurting them much. Of course I loved MGS twin snakes and Eternal Darkness, but how many people out there actually bought this game. Wait, I dont' meen to say it won't hurt nintendo, but at least not comercially. But as far as the die hard fans, this is going to lower the respect they have in nintendo, and if the hardcore fans leave, then there truly will be nothing left then a bunch of children, or at least no one to contradict the "children only" banner that has been place upon the Big N's head.

There is also substantial evidence to shake this off as another lie, though, because Dyack did comment about a month ago that he was getting along great with nintendo, and that they were great for each other.

Either way, the only people that truly suffer are the fans:(

-Bekr Salti

[bonzo]

when has ign ever posted lies this big? they said that silicon knights has confirmed this.
it's brutal.

[thegamecubist]

Silicon Knights. That name, when echoed amongst Nintendo fans, usually bring up a sight of a messiah, if you will, the company who was devoted to making great games. And now the messiah is gone.

I really don't know how to interpret this. How can a company say that "we don't mesh" when you both are traveling towards the same goal-the goal of pushing video games into and art form. Nintendo echoed this constantly in the Nintendo Difference, and Silicon Knights repreats this in their company focus. (http://www.siliconknights.com/guild/guild_n.htm) I could reflect all day, but the sad fact is that they are gone, following the path of Left Field, and Rare.

This is horrible for Nintendo. Aquiring a company to make mature games, and leaving them because they didn't share the same views? Why ask for a company to make mature games when the companies involved cannot put aside their differences-even though they really had none- like mature people?

Silicon Knights will suffer, though-theoretically- less so. If they really plan to enter the pop culture world of PS2 and XBOX, do they really think they can sell their artistically-focused product with stellar sales while other companies, with just as innovative games-like Prince of Persia, BG&E (Ubi Soft) or Rez (Sega)-sell like coldcakes? The only theoretical advantage given is a bigger potential consumer base, but if the game wont sell well exclusivley on the quality-picky GCN fanbase, good luck selling it to the kids playing Enter the Matrix.

To end off, this one quote-said by bountyhunter-really does culmunate todays events.

Originally posted by bountyhunter
Either way, the only people that truly suffer are the fans:(

-Bekr Salti


-Rocky K, a.k.a thegamecubist

[COTTON]

The real sad thing is that we didn't even get to see the full potential of this great company.

Eternal Darkness (I'd still like to see a sequel to it) is great , as is Metal Gear Solid, but we might just end up missing out on their supposed magnum opus; Too Human and other undoubtably great titles.

It's too bad they're no longer exclusive. One less reason to buy a Gamecube if you havn't already. I just hope that they continue to support Nintendo's systems, Considering they already have experience on the Cube.

Whatever you do, just don't let the quality suffer SK.
-COTTON

[Nathantendo]

SK will just get lost in the mature crap on the other systems. SK games are deeper and more fulfilling then the half-a$$ed gross-out titles on the other systems.

[Miggy-AMN]

Originally posted by MoN
If they still develop for Nintendo, who cares? I hope they develop for Xbox, too. That'd be cool. Too Human on Xbox...yay.

**** ***.

[lilxleftee]

This is a bit off topic, but.. i feel like the world is slowly becoming a world of mainstream and advertising. It's tipping the balance of quality and false advertising.

I always feel as though Nintendo is the only company striving to create ACTUAL quality games. Games that we'll always remember.. mascots we'll always love.. GAMEPLAY we'll never forget. Every gaming company, including Nintendo, will eventually have no choice but to go about the same routes and attempt to fully go into the mainstream audience for the sake of BUSINESS SURVIVAL / growth in business.

Of course money and having a good business is a significant factor, but I don't know what it is I feel.. either it's a bit of a biased thinking of mine, or that every other company is perceived in my mind as, per say, "grimey mother*******". Sk has gone down this route. It's sad how much, money controls the world.

But regardless of any of this, I'll always be loyal to Nintendo and their morals. This is my opinion :(

[Nintendo Survivor]

Makes me wonder where the future of ED will end up? Do they plan on porting ED to PS2 and XBOX then releasing ED2 for all systems? I hope they keep ED GCN exclusive.

[bountyhunter]

Whatever happens to ED, it will be a long time, so don't expect anything soon on any console.

And to add some, I'd like to say there may be hope after all. Maybe SK just wants freedom they can't get being bonded to another company. This doesn't mean that they won't ever make another GC or Nintendo console game, I don't think I'd be wrong to say that there may be a surprise coming up soon......

[Sean-AMN]

Plain and simple I blame Nintendo ... in fact its editorial time...

[lilxleftee]

heh, no point makin up editorials when the news is not 100% confirmed

[thegamecubist]

I hope that this is just some horrible prank.

[koten]

I think everyone here does... except for XBE... he will probably show up and laugh his *** off soon...

[COTTON]

Originally posted by Nathan-GCA
Makes me wonder where the future of ED will end up? Do they plan on porting ED to PS2 and XBOX then releasing ED2 for all systems? I hope they keep ED GCN exclusive.

Didn't Dennis Dyak say once that ED was a 50/50 thing between Nintendo and SK?
He said in this announcement that SK and Nintendo might still work on a project together. Maybe an ED sequel is what he's refering to there.

[OutlawAdidas]

Plus, PS2 gamers aren't that smart to play a game such as ED

[Briton-AMN]

Dammit. Damn it all. SK was one of the best things going for Nintendo. Does this mean we won't be seeing Too Human exclusively on the Cube, or will it be multiplatform in whichever generation it chooses to come out in? What do you think?

[OutlawAdidas]

Multiplatform would suck. It would blow.
The whole idea was to have it exclusive

[COTTON]

We still might just see Too Human yet on a Nintendo system, as well as other systems. Maybe we'll find out at E3?

[johnnyb853]

they might still make it exclusive look at capcom :D

[OutlawAdidas]

mmm Capcom, lets look at Capcom. Veiwtiful Joe, supposed to be exclusive to the GC.....wrong. Its being ported to PS2.
Killer 7, exclusive to the cube, well yea, for 6 months, then it was ported to the ps2.

SK is gonna slowly turn its head away from Ninty

[Sean-AMN]

It is 100% for sure I just talked to a few key folks... they have parted ways

[johnnyb853]

doesn't every child turn away from its parent only to one day come back for some love. :D

[Cooolcorey]

Originally posted by johnnyb853
doesn't every child turn away from its parent only to one day come back for some love. :D

...

Not corporate children.

And besides, Nintendo is more of a step dad to SK anyway.

[bountyhunter]

Even if SK is truly seperating, and I find it hard to believe, I think that too human will still be exclusive to N5 or whatever it's now being called. My reason for this is simple. You guys know SK will try to take advantage of everything they can when they make the game, so multiplatform would be out of the question, becuase then the game would only be as strong as the weakest console permits........

[mario]

This will hurt everyone if it is true.

Nintendo- loses too human exclusivity and exclusivity of other future silicon knights projects.

Silicon Knights-will be constrained by more restrictive publishers, and won't have the help of nintendo to make more artistic, original games.

Fans-This is where it really hurts. Sure, we will still get SK games and Nintendo games, but not both rolled into one.

I personally don't bielieve this one. Nintendo and Silicon kights both want creative, original games, in a business of clones and repetitions. two of the very few companies that actually care about the quality of their games over the sales. Seperated from nintendo, SK will have less funds, and may be forced into catering to a mainstream audience. None of us want that. Exclusivity will give more bragging points to nintendo fans when arguing their point. If silicon kinghts drops to the mainstream, it will be a sad day for gaming around the world. One of the few things from canada that's actually cool, SK has a glorius past. I felt that since nintendo was lending out their characters to companies like namco, it was only a matter of time before SK handled a zelda title or something of the like. If this rumor is true , that dream is shattered. Ign has poor credibility, and i don't think they would have much trouble taking what denis said way out of context, and adding in their own explanations and theories.

Tim S. A.K.A Mario, A.K.A Donkeykongoron

[Matt]

Fans won't suffer - they will be better off. Silicon Knights games won't just be for GCN owners.

[lilxleftee]

what is the point of having a system that has no exclusive titles? with that said, since recently, many companies have dropped support in many ways, and many other companies may follow.. AND ARGH god damn tales of symphonia has lost it's exclusivity as well.. sigh..

[koten]

All i can really have left to say (everyone said just about everything i coul think of) Nintendo has just taken another shovelful of dirt out of their own grave

[bill TSM]

Originally posted by bountyhunter
... becuase then the game would only be as strong as the weakest console permits........
In this case, the GCNext may be the weakest console since Nintendo is stressing that technology isn't the answer.

I for one don't care so much for exclusivity since I own all three systems. But even if I only had a GameCube, as long as I got the game, I would care less. As long as we've got exclusive Nintendo games, no one can touch the number of quality games that are available for a system.

[mario]

i still dont believe there leaving. ign sucks.

[XboxEvolved]

LOL the people who have a hard time believing it crack me up, anyways why would multiplatform be SO bad? I can see SK getting games published by Ubi Soft and Ubi Soft makes some killer multi-platform games.

[bill TSM]

Why does IGN suck? because they reported something that someone from SK told them? hmm... it looks like they're going 3rd party to me.

[Crush]

I'm still confused cause I remember reading an interview on gamespy when they asked if SK and Nintendo would ever part ways DD said that they would never do that because SK's and Nintendo's philosophys on makeing video games were the same. I just hope that this is some joke and a big marketing ploy for SK's new game but deep down inside I know that it probably is true.

[Miggy-AMN]

Silicon Knights are great developers. Their games are simply brilliant. But can you really blame Nintendo for letting them go? Because I'm pretty sure that they were the ones that let them go.

Just take a look at these statements from a recent Interview by Gamespy:

GameSpy: Well, it's certainly true that if your relationship with Nintendo is as permanent as you say it is.

Denis: It is.

GameSpy: Then Silicon Knights are not going anywhere?

Denis: No, never. Ever. And frankly, to consider us anything else but a part of Nintendo is a huge mistake. Because it's not ever gonna happen. We've had other publishers call us up. And we say, "Calling us is calling Nintendo. What would you like to do?" And with Konami, that's exactly what we're looking for!

The partnership has got a long time to go, and it gives me a long time to learn Japanese! I've been trying for three years now. One of my goals is to have a conversation with Miyamoto and Iwata and talk about game design philosophy entirely in Japanese. It's worthwhile -- it's a beautiful language, and I love the culture. There's so much to be admired, there's so much to learn from it. Our game design philosophy is based around Miyamoto Musashi's The Book of Five Rings ... and we were working on that years before we met Nintendo!

Does it look like Dyack was interested in parting ways with Nintendo? Of course not! At least Rare (before they left) were leaving cryptic messages and saying: "No comment" in every interview they gave.

It's obvious that this was Nintendo's decision -- but again -- can you really blame them? With two titles that enjoyed "less than impressive" sales (though we have to wait for MGS sales data) you really have to reconsider where to use your resources. Nintendo isn't in a position to waste resources on games that won't have the ammount of success required, so their decision to give them freedom, while still allowing them to develop for Nintendo's platforms, is pretty much the best decision they could've done.

And I'm sure that Denis still loves Nintendo... but he's probably very depressed right now.

[kellett03]

we will have to wait e3 to see whats happining with s@k and too human
but in a couple of days the headlines will be "Mircosoft buys S@K"

[Rensa]

Obviously, all we can do is speculate on the motives of this, but let me play devil's advocate for a second. Just about everyone can see the parallels between this and Rare's departure, but why did Rare leave? We know that it was fed up with being on a short leash at Nintendo, as well as its games not selling despite their obvious high standard. And what did Nintendo do? Nothing. In fact, it let Rare stew until it simply wasn't economically viable to hold on any more - and the whole time, the solution was hitting it in the face. That's how Rare ended up in Microsoft's warm embrace. At least this time, the two have departed on good terms, and SK has ended up 3rd party, rather than "switching sides".

To all those talking of "lost talent", try to expand your horizons a little; some of you sound like elitist religious figures speaking of the promising young choir boy who just killed an old lady. Going third-party does not demean Silicon Knights in any way at all - it'll still make great games, if only you'll consider other consoles. You don't even need to buy them - swap consoles with your mates every now and then; sample the great games other developers have to offer.

By now, you think that Nintendo would have realised that it's not a lack of quality that's stopping games from selling - it's a lack of proper exposure.

[blablamax]

Originally posted by OutlawAdidas
Plus, PS2 gamers aren't that smart to play a game such as ED
:D

Liked this one.

I dont get it - why people dont believe to this news if Denis Dyack told that they parted their ways it ture. End of story.

Now .. I want to open a new topic .. sub topic on the subject but there is too much threads here on the subject .. soo we'll till weekend. :(

[blablamax]

Rensa, not everyone has the money for more than one consoles, and not every one live on places there their friends got consoles.

We want to see the future of Nintendo .. but the rush of companies away from Nintendo .. and cause of Nintendo just make us fear that Nintendo just dug their own grave.

By the way ,Nintendo dumped Rare.

[sidcrazy]

When Nintendo decided to sell Rare, I was one of the few that really didn’t care. Rare is a great company, but they take forever to release anything, and I didn’t really enjoy some of their last titles, Star Fox anyone? But Silicon Knights leaving has really made me worry.

Silicon Knights going 3rd party doesn’t really bother me, I just hope they continue to support Nintendo consoles in one way or another. What does bother me is I hope they won’t get bought out by Microsoft, EA, or Sony.

[Freak of Kane]

Wow, this is a shocker. I have no idea whose decision it was to break up the partnership, because there are viable reasons on both sides depending on which view you take...but this is yet another blow to Nintendo. I can see Code_Link's point about Nintendo letting them go - ED didn't enjoy great sales and we'll have to wait on MGS:TTS, which has brand recognition so is expected to sell. But I'd go as far to say that with the promotional material Eternal Darkness got, I'm surprised it managed to surpass 200, 000 copies sold.

Looking at the possibility of SK wanting to part, I can see why they might want to. Their game design philosophies involve good graphics, technology, story etc. which have been [more] recently downplayed by the upper echelons of Nintendo. I'm sure Silicon Knights know much about Nintendo's next generation plans - maybe they didn't like them, not because they weren't good, but because they may not work consumer wise. The consumer is the person who'll be purchasing the product - if you don't please them, they won't hand over the money.

I don't think we'll ever really find out which party initiated the break up of a collaboration as great as this - much like we don't really know what went on with Rare. Personally, I think it was ultimately Nintendo's decision. So what's left for the future? I think most of us can expect something new from SK at E3...for which platform, I don't know - but I hope it will be a multiplatform game. Somehow I don't think they'll release something on GameCube - well, not their next project anyway. I also think they're going to have a fight on their hands to get Xbox and PS2 owners to purchase their games, but with the right publisher (I'm pretty sure someone big will pick up the publishing rights for their next game) which will hopefully have more promotional sense than Nintendo...I believe Silicon Knights will (continue to) become a success - even more so than with Nintendo and most probably financially better off.

So what gives for Nintendo's future? That really is in their hands. I don't think this is a personal blow to the heart of Nintendo - Nintendo of Japan. Maybe they didn't like what SK were doing so decided to let go. However, I'm pretty sure Nintendo of America has issues about it, maybe even NOE. Whatever happens, as someone said, the fans will suffer - well, the “Nintendo only” fans who developed a great liking to Silicon Knights and may not see games from them in the future. But SK will now be exposed to the largest possible fan base due to being able to develop for any platforms.

I'm sorry to say, but this is just another nail in the coffin for Nintendo. I'm more than sure that we will hear of more third parties dropping Cube support. Heck, I've no doubt that people will begin to denounce SK, just like the retaliation after Rare left. The PSP is a threat. Next generation systems from Sony and Microsoft are also threats. I'm beginning to believe the rumours about Nintendo not releasing a truly new product for next generation even more each day. Nintendo need to realise that this isn't their party anymore - they are the "Apple" (take it both ways if you like) of this industry and I have no hesitation in saying that they will most probably disappear off the radar after next generation...probably to become totally [more so than now] niche with a hardcore following and trading mainly in Japan - that is, unless they change their attitude or a miracle occurs, which I doubt.

The Nintendo and Silicon Knights break up? I think this pot has been stirring for a long while – waiting to happen, and the reaction from gamers about MGS:TTS ultimately being a port rather than something totally new (how it was hyped to be) didn’t help either. In a way, Nintendo’s views contradict themselves. They talk about innovation and new styles of games and game play yet they continue to make large amounts of money from selling remakes and ports – which, by the way, I personally don’t have a problem with – but it does go to further prove that money is really the driving factor.

Don't get me wrong, I will continue to play GameCube and purchase Nintendo products and most of all, ENJOY them. I like to think of myself as a part of their "hardcore" following, but who also has the ability to speak out when I don't think they're right. I can't wait to play Metroid Prime 2 and games like Mario Tennis - but unlike many others (and this is totally out of the blue), I will also be enjoying Burnout 3 on my PS2.

[MAX]

Originally posted by MoN
If they still develop for Nintendo, who cares? I hope they develop for Xbox, too. That'd be cool. Too Human on Xbox...yay.

Even though SK went thrid party, they could still have made deals with nintendo to create exclusive titles like E.D.2 and Too Human. Yet, still be allowed the freedom to develope for other consoles... I really don't see the big deal in this, as we don't really know the details.

[Freak of Kane]

I hope SK get to keep the rights to ED and Too Human - Matt from IGN asked Denis and he "couldn't comment". They are rightfully SK's.

[sidcrazy]

Originally posted by Freak of Kane

I also think they're going to have a fight on their hands to get Xbox and PS2 owners to purchase their games, but with the right publisher (I'm pretty sure someone big will pick up the publishing rights for their next game) which will hopefully have more promotional sense than Nintendo...I believe Silicon Knights will (continue to) become a success - even more so than with Nintendo and most probably financially better off.


Honestly I don't believe SK will have any trouble getting gamers to buy their games for X-box, and PS2. Considering they created the Legacy of Kain game for the PS1, this franchise is sill going strong, even though to my knowledge SK only did the first one.

EDIT to fix type Os

.

[johnnyb853]

nintendo emailed me back on the topic here is what they said

Hello Jonathan,

Thank you for your e-mail. We appreciate your loyalty to Nintendo and are
pleased that you decided to contact Nintendo with your comments regarding
support for Nintendo platforms.

As you have heard, Nintendo and Silicon Knights have reached an agreement
allowing Silicon Knights to pursue its vision of video game entertainment with
other companies. Nintendo respects the creative work of Silicon Knights, and
the parties have left the door open to work on future projects that meet the
creative vision of both companies. At this time, our philosophies on software
are different enough to lead to a departure from our current relationship.

Regardless of this announcement, licensee support for our products remains
strong and we are very excited about the future. Stay tuned to our E3 show in
May 2004 for the latest product news and announcements.

Thanks again for your e-mail. The feedback we receive from our fans is very
important to Nintendo. Rest assured that your comments have been shared with
the appropriate departments within Nintendo so that your opinion on this matter
is seen.

Sincerely,

Nintendo of America Inc.
Misty Dalton

Nintendo's home page: http://www.nintendo.com/
Power Line (Automated Product Info): (425) 885-7529

[COTTON]

Originally posted by Freak of Kane
I hope SK get to keep the rights to ED and Too Human - Matt from IGN asked Denis and he "couldn't comment". They are rightfully SK's.

Didn't I read in an interview, that Dennis Dyak said that ED was a colaboration between Nintendo and SK right from the start? So maybe SK wont actually recieve the ED license, or somthing odd will be worked out between the companies. As for Too Human, wasn't that always SK's license? SK had that before they were at Nintendo, So that will undoubtably stay with SK.

Also Nintendo has a thirty-some percent stake in SK, and so far they're keeping it. Maybe they'll keep it to secure games for their systems, then again, maybe they're gonna sell it back to SK or someone else.

[Aretak]

Ok, yeah, I'm as disappointed as anyone else that Silicon Knights is leaving Nintendo... but let's not blow this out of all proportion. With Nintendo, Silicon Knights made two games, that while very good, sold poorly. It's that simple. The contract of exclusivity between Silicon Knights and Nintendo wasn't doing anyone any good. Nintendo were losing money, Silicon Knights were losing money, and your average GCN owner wasn't getting as much money put into games that they would want to buy. To be blunt, everyone is better off this way.

In retrospect, was it really that hard to see this coming? Whether you can admit it or not, "adult" games are not the sort of thing which sell well on the GameCube in general, and since adult games are what Silicon Knights produce, them only putting their games on the GameCube didn't make sense. Surely the Xbox and PS2 are formats much more suited to thier style of games?

I would really have liked to see Silicon Knights stay with Nintendo... they rounded out Nintendo's portfolio of developers nicely. But maybe, just maybe, this is for the best. Now Silicon Knights will be able to put their effort into consoles that they can perhaps sell more games on, and Nintendo can put more money into games that'll sell better on their machine.

It isn't like GameCube owners are necessarily going to be missing out either. As has been said, Silicon Knights have gone third party -- and that means they're as likely to work on the GameCube as anywhere else. This is not another Rare situation, so let's not treat it like one. Silicon Knights are still a GameCube developer until we hear otherwise.

To me, it seems like a win/win situation for all involved.

[Gamebit]

I could careless about the whole thing. I never praise SK like so many other fans did. Just becasue they made one good game make them the greatest game makers Ever? :rolleyes:

[thegamecubist]

Two good games.

PWNED?

[OutlawAdidas]

Could be a sanity effect.....just for ED2. Thats what I am hoping for

[bountyhunter]

aren't we all?

[Pied_Piper]

I beleive this i just don't understand it. I mean they only put two games on gamecube...hmmm... maybe that's it. It still does not make sence though considering one of the games was one made by konami... I dont know.

[Freak of Kane]

Originally posted by COTTON
Also Nintendo has a thirty-some percent stake in SK, and so far they're keeping it. Maybe they'll keep it to secure games for their systems, then again, maybe they're gonna sell it back to SK or someone else.

They're gonna keep the 30% stake? Wow...personally, I'd be pleased if that did happen. All that has been said is that they're ending the "exclusivity" agreement - BUT why would Nintendo still want to have part of them then? Nothing has been said about it "officially" or from reliable sources...but I think if Nintendo do sell their stake, it'll be back to SK. Please don't.

To the people who still think this is a hoax: :sorry:

[Link]

Silicon Knights. I have played both of their games for Gamecube, and frankly, I'm not very impressed. Their first project, Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requim, had clunky controls, and although the sanity effects were interesting, I could not get very interested in the game at all. Their second project, Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes, was, simply put, a port of a game made by Konami back in 1998 (I believe that's the year, not sure). While fun, it only gives about 7 hours on average, which is very little value when the game costs $49.99. Plus, the graphics were not as good as everyone made them out to be (look at some of the character models if you don't believe me).

I don't know what the future holds, but I think that SK will still develop for Nintendo. I just don't think that them going third party is going to hurt Nintendo that much.

[Freak of Kane]

Honestly, clunky controls? Wow. I found the controls to be perfect. To each their own, I guess.

[koten]

Ninty still has 30 percent of shares in SK? GREAT! That means that Nintendo still get SK exclusives and such. Hum... maybe Nintendo will do the smart thing and pick up another 19 shares in SK. Hopefully Nintendo can do so... that would be great! It has to be done... sadly though SK and Nintendo may be parting ways as for exclusives... but because of nintendo's (apparently) massive stake in the company... SK CAN'T make exclusives for any other console. And colaborations are still highly possible

[thegamecubist]

This is my spectulation....

If there is no "exclusivity" clause anymore, then SK and Ninty may operate in the same fashion as Sony and Square, where Sony holds a minority stake but Square can release a game on which ever console they choose. The stake in SK from Nintendo *may* operate in the same manner.

uh...Koten...a share doesn't equal a percent owned of the company.

[koten]

Wrong take... Square can only make games for GC cause of Q-Fund, a company owned 50/50 by square and nintendo, if it wasn't for them, all square made games would be forced onto the PS2

[Spirit Icana]

Let's ponder the natural occurances of nature for a second. As the wind blows, the long hand of a clock ticks. Among this natural occurance, friends are both breed and torn apart. With all supernatural situations aside, one must ask... why? Silicon Knights stood among Nintendo as a very well respected developer and has been praised for their artistic achievements in both story and illustration. Dyack had also consistently noted to us himself that the company cannot be in better hands. So why? Why must the flowing river of life be drowned between the two most respected videogame developers of our time. In the long run, I believe Silicon Knights may indeed find home to their recently planted roots. I believe the company, with Nintendo or not, will continue to strive for quality, creativity, and abundance when it comes down to development time. I also believe, being an avid Nintendo faithful, that Nintendo will pull through this loss and continue to bring joy and excitement with the growing amounts of products they have being nurtured in the pipe lines. All in all, I believe even through slight seperation, friends will forever remain friends, and that Silicon Knights and Nintendo will continue to lead the pack they have established and bring life and joy into the homes that have been built all throughout the world.
- Spirit Icana

[Spartacus]

I've calmed down from when I first heard about SK. How many games was SK going to bring us in the next six years? 1? 2? F5 could be making games for GCNext as I said before. But if not, they were going to bring us 4 games tops, within the next six years. (I doubt even 2) When I think about it, things really aren’t that bad. It would have been great to play Too Human, but, for all we know, it won’t come out for another five years, if ever. We have a ton of games coming out this year, and NONE of us were expecting anything from either of them (at least this year). All I’m saying is that thing aren’t really as bad as they seem/ed at first.

[HeckHouse]

While I'm not a SK fanatic, I think this is definately bad news for Nintendo. Nintendo has lost alot of third and second party support lately. And most of the third party games developed for the Cube have far less features than their PS2 and Xbox counterparts. With the loss of SK and now Factor 5, a question comes up: Why play a Gamecube? Other than the Nintendo exclusives, there really isn't much else the Cube can offer. No online, crappy 3rd party ports... Nintendo's focus on GBA connectivity and " Back to the basics " philosophy is pushing developers away. If things keep going like this, Nintendo might be the only people making software for their system.

[Shoxx]

To put it simple...Nintendo is in trouble. They had one of their stronger sellers (Eternal Darkness) come from Silicon Knights, and then came Twin Snakes...they were great. When both Silicon Knights and Factor 5 leave Nintendo's side to develop for other platforms, it means both that Nintendo is running out of second party developers, and that Nintendo will have to find new developers. Nintendo's got some work to do before they will be back to where they were before, and if they can't find any new second party developers to take their places, then, they might as well give up in the next generation.

[Spartacus]

I wonder if you read any news at all. F5 is probably just going to make games for GCNext. No more games for this gen. As for SK, ED didn't sell that much, and I sure TTS didn't either. Their great and all, but this isn't going to do much harm to Nintendo.

[MAX]

Originally posted by OutlawShadow
To put it simple...Nintendo is in trouble. They had one of their stronger sellers (Eternal Darkness) come from Silicon Knights, and then came Twin Snakes...they were great. When both Silicon Knights and Factor 5 leave Nintendo's side to develop for other platforms, it means both that Nintendo is running out of second party developers, and that Nintendo will have to find new developers. Nintendo's got some work to do before they will be back to where they were before, and if they can't find any new second party developers to take their places, then, they might as well give up in the next generation.

I disagree with you completely, as I feel that most of the negative comments in this thread are out of bias and/or jumping to conclusions. Factor 5 is not going to develope for GAMECUBE... that doesn't mean they won't develope for the next gen nintendo console. In fact, they made a statement that they want to start working on NEXT GEN console software. I think Nintendo is allowing the decrease in software support for Gamecube, because they want a stronger release for the next gen console. Gamecube is dead in the water as far as this generation goes. Nintendo would be wise to concentrate on the next gen consoles debut. None of us know the contracts or the behind the scenes of nintendos relationships with these 2nd and 3rd party developers. So quit hating and chill.

[ssjvegeto]

You know what I think about this. Best Insanity Effect ever.

because just a few days ago Dyack said he couldn't see SK by itself. He would never leave nintendo.

[Freak of Kane]

Wonder when the press release is coming...

[bountyhunter]

I agree with rott......if factor five made 1 game every 2 years, there next one would come out in winter of '05, probably around the next console's launch.

After i read all the crap about sk never leaving nintendo at all, I see that it must be Nintendo's fault. I know SK games weren't the hottest sellers, but they round out the consoles library and make it much more atractive.

[OutlawAdidas]

Its coming right about............................................. .................................................. .........NOW! *crickets chirp*

[koten]

Right... I still wonder what exactly caused this and what exactly we aree going to be seeing from SK now. Like Was Stated before, because of Nintendo's large stock on SK, the company still HAS to develope for gamecube/N5, but who knows how multiconsole will affect the company?

[OutlawAdidas]

I'm thinking that Nintendo wanted SK to work on a LoZ game. But SK wanted to work on ED2 and Too Human, and from that a great battle of Pokemon was fought between Dyack and Iwata. Dyack won, and seperated from Nintendo. Iwata vowed revenge and so went on a search to find the legendary pokemon card, OutlawAdidas

[koten]

Um... Nintendo had no plans of letting SK work on a Zelda game... especially seeing as that whole story was one of Nintendojo's April Fools Jokes... You people can't take everything seriously...

[OutlawAdidas]

But you know what, when a thought like that goes into our head, it triggers the excitement factor in which we soon rant and rave about the situation

[koten]

True... but don't take everything so seriously... believed it at first untill i saw the very same mock up that had been sitting around here for a while

[prime_timer]

Well, its a truly sad thing to see. I mean, SK may have only put out two titles in the GCN's lifespan, but they were some damn good games. Eternal Darkness often got my mind racing and made me question my own sanity, while Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes gets my pulse pounding as I lay in a hiding spot while the guards clear the room. Silicon Knights is one of the best development houses in the world. It looks like a bad move for Nintendo, but a good move for Silicon Knights... at least if they're looking for good sales. But working for a multi-platform dev. house or becoming a 2nd party for one of the other systems may be their downfall, as they wont get the long development times Nintendo offered them. Either way, I wish Silicon Knights the best of luck, and wish Nintendo greater luck at finding a new 2nd party to replace them.

[Wh|tE gUy]

Well im too lazy to read all thats been said so pardon me if i repeat anything

First of all, stupid move on SK part. I really do not believe they can survive on their own. They have put out 2 games in the last 5 years and have received only adequet sales.

Second, how can a second party just decide to leave? I thought being a 2nd party meant you are contractually obligated to develope for only one system and it is the parents company who decides when they leave?

Third, SK is not that big of a deal. It's obvious that they are definitely lacking on a graphics level, I've been pointing this all along. Again, 2 games in 5 years, it took them about 2-3 years to make ED. Dont get me wrong, Eternal Darkness was a great game but I really don't think that it was totally worth all of the time invested. Other than that they have only made Twin Snakes which, lets be honest, is no great achievement. It's good, but it aint ground breaking, reallistically even someone like Midway could have remade MGS and made it not suck.

Basically, it is not that big of a loss. Eternal Darkness was good and Twin Snakes took a great game and made it not suck by today's standards. Oh well.

[bountyhunter]

I don't think it was SKs decision to leave....

[Wh|tE gUy]

hmm, maybe it was nintendos decision. Its just that the IGN article makes it seem like SK chose to leave

[koten]

Like it was said Wh|te gUy, Ninty has 30% of SK shares, and I believe SK and Nintendo had a contract that only allowed SK to make games for GC. As far as I can figure, the contract ran out and SK refused to restore it. I would also like to say something important to Nintendo. USE THE DAMN ACQUISITIONS FUND!

[Messiah]

Ok i cant really be bothered reading this whole thread but from what i know this is all i can say

:(:(:(:(

[Messiah]

Hope not, that would be a big blow

[Eric-AMN]

Lol, I found this going through the archives

http://www.gcadvanced.com/article.php?artid=1208

Denis really just doesn't seem to see it coming at all if his remarks are to be taken at face value, and I always have.

EGM: Rumors abound that you're so pleased with this Silicon Knights-Konami-Nintendo partnership that you're considering pursing another joint project. Is that true?

DD: Pursuing an original property together is something that we've discussed... I don't worry about Silicon Knights losing its identity as part of this collaboration. Imagine this -- it's totally hypothetical, of course, but what if the three groups came together and merged to be one... that would be a great thing for the industry, wouldn't it? I think that SK will always be known for its original projects, but as long as there's room for collaboration, we will pursue it. Konami and Nintendo are both masters; they're fantastic to work with. It's hard to turn down an opportunity like that.


EGM: Twin Snakes is launching at a fortuitous time; Christmas was great for the GameCube, and lots of gamers are just now starting to get games for it. Do you think that 2004 could be the year that GC reclaims second place?

DD: As far as I know, we already have. What's more important than that, I think, is that the GC player base is getting a game that nobody else is getting. There's never been a Metal Gear Solid on a Nintendo console. People who are hardcore MGS fans will gravitate towards it. I've gotten a little bit of hate mail from people who don't have a Cube, and I just say "Pick up a Cube, you won't regret it." There are a lot of great games on it. It really is a testament to the collaboration; I think we're going to see a lot more of this in the future.


DD: Nintendo clearly had a really strong end of the year. I was very surprised that Microsoft and Sony didn't drop their price... Nintendo really dominated. It's important, though, that we maintain our quality and our idea of what games should be. When these hardware wars become meaningless -- and they will; I don't know if anyone can even win these things -- people will look back at Nintendo and think quality games. We're big fans ourselves, and it's weird to be working on something that I'm so into.
Really, it seriously doesn't sound like anything is wrong at all, and that Denis already knows of the future plans for what he'll be doing with Nintendo. Other than MGS:TTS not selling, I can't imagine what happened in a month that could break up a relationship that Denis appeared to be enjoying so much (if the split was "mutual" as Nintendo says).

[questworld]

To be honest, some part of me still feels like this is all a ruse. It's all too sudden. On top of that are Denis Dyack's comments about working with Nintendo (though I suppose pretty much all developers sugercoat things they say about their publishers), the facts are that despite the numerous quotes from different publications that are allegedly from NOA representatives and Mr. Dyack, there still seems to be some confusion from others that say that both parties are still yet to comment on the news.

Whether or not this ultimately gets cleared up as true, my feelings are right along side of those around here, which is of sadness. To be more accurate, I believe it is mainly the security that people are most upset about. The fact that they're pretty much freelance creates this image synonymous to what the general third-party support for the GameCube is, which is a wait and see approach. For the most part, that simply ends up as a no support stance, and this is what people fear the most with this breakup.

Silicon Knights has been put on the spotlight when Nintendo opted to have them as a second-party developer. I for one never heard of them before Eternal Darkness and am only vaguely familiar of Legacy of Kain. In fact, pretty much all developers that have been under Nintendo's wing have gone to have more recognition for Nintendo fans, especially when their games are actually good. I guess Nintendo just has good taste for the most part with their colleagues. Still in the end I suppose this breakup will get pinned on Nintendo as if it’s entirely their fault. However, the truth is it's us, the consumers. Now I'm not saying that I blame anyone for not purchasing SK's works, it's always down to preference, and at Eternal Darkness' release there really was not as many of us to take notice. Sometimes one wishes if they could just make another game of their own (not counting Metal Gear Solid as it was Konami’s own work) so that we can truly show them homage for their efforts and stance along side Nintendo.

The partnership in the end has given Silicon Knights a bigger audience considering how devoted gamers get towards those that Nintendo has sired (such as those that use to work at Rare that have formed other companies). I'm sure many Nintendo gamers will keep an eye on them on their future ventures and will hope to God that they'll get similar treatment on their consoles. Let us not lose hope as if this is the end. This provides SK a way to increase their financial standing, expand operations, etc. It certainly doesn’t say that they’ve opted to drop Nintendo support. If anything else, if their future works go to sell badly, they can easily choose to port it over to other consoles to recover losses. Considering that such a small developer can’t simply afford to lose money in this day and age on such risks of innovations, I think it’s the right move overall and both companies should be given the benefit of the doubt. I doubt Nintendo or we gamers would want such a talented group to go down along side so many others that have gone bankrupt this generation.

As of now, though, I would really like to hear form Denis Dyack on his stance on their support of Nintendo and what project they can guarantee to us will make it on the GameCube or the GCNext. We definitely could use the reassurance of an actual game on its way. Let me close this by saying good luck to Nintendo, Silicon Kights, and all of us fans of both companies.

[ResidentGCEvil]

THIS CANT POSSIBLY BE GOOD NEWS. SK WAS FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES USED FOR NINTENDO TO GET STREET CRED FOR MATURITY. THIS WILL BE FRONT NEWS ON ALL THE WEBSITES AS WELL AS IN EGM E.T.C. FOR US NINTENDO FANS IT'S HEARTBREAKING BECAUSE THIS LOST MEANS MORE TO US THAN A SAY PERHAPS MIDWAY OR EDIOS NO LONGER SUPPORTING THE CUBE. THIS WAS A SECOND EXCLUSIVE PARTY. TO THE PS2 AND XBOX OWNERS ITS ONE MORE REASON FOR THEM TO LAUGH IN OUR FACE AND SAY SEE--WE TOLD YOU NINTENDO DOSEN'T KNOW WHAT THE HELL IT'S DOING. NINTENDO NEEDS TO UNDERSTAND THAT ITS NOT ALL ABOUT SALES OR MONEY GENERATED OR HOW MANY GAMES YOU COME OUT WITH EACH YEAR. A HUGE PART OF THIS BUISNESS IS ABOUT IMAGE AND NINTENDO'S IMAGE IS DISASTEROUS WITH THE GAMING COMMUNITY OTHER THAN PEOPLE LOOKING AT THEM AS A NOSTALSIC SENSE OF 'GREAT IN THE PAST'. HONESTLY NINTENDO IS IRRELEVANT TO MANY GAME PLAYERS AND INDUSTRY INSIDERS AT HIS POINT. IT AMAZES ME THAT NINTENDO HAD LAST GROUND ON TWO SEPERATE HARDWARE GENERATIONS AND CONTINUES TO BE STUBBORN AND NOT CHANGE WITH THE TIMES. FROM NOT PUTTING BLOOD IN MORTAL COMBAT BACK IN THE SNES/GENESIS WARS, TO NOT GOING WITH A CD DRIVE, TO GOING WITH SMALLER DISKS AND NO DVD PLAYBACK ON GAMECUBE, TO COMING OUT WITH A PURPLE CUBE, TO INSISTING ON GBA/GC CONNECTIVITY INSTEAD OF INTERNET CONNECTIVITY. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THEM??? ARE THEY THE ONLY ONES TO SEE THAT THEIR CONTINUOUSLY LOOSING GROUND? THEY CANNOT CONTINUE TO DO BUISNESS LIKE THIS. SILICON KNIGHTS WAS A EXCELLENT SECOND PARTY FOR NINTENDO AND ETERNAL DARKNESS KICKED @@@. I WAS A LITTLE DISSAPOINTED WITH THEM REMAKING METAL GEAR BECAUSE SK'S TIME COULDA BEEN BETTER USED MAKING THEIR OWN GREAT GAMES. AND HOW DO YOU GET RID OF SUCH A GREAT PERSONALITY AS DENNIS DYACK? HE WAS A GREAT SPOKESPERSON FOR NINTENDO AND SK. I WISH I COULD RUN NINTENDO FOR ONE YEAR TO COMPLETELY CHANGE THINGS AROUND. AS PRESIDENT I WOULD CONTINUE TO USE OUR STRONGHOLDS MARIO, ZELDA E.T.C. BUT EVEN MARKETING FOR THESE ICONS DURING A RELEASE COULD BE BETTER. I WOULD WORK ON ESTABLISHING NEW BRANDS. WHY IN THE HELL CANT NINTENDO MAKE AN ADULT ORIENTATED GAME THEMSELVES AS A FRANCHISE WITH THEIR EXCELLENCE IN GAME DESIGN THAT KICKS @@@. I WOULD GET ONLINE IMMEDIATELY INSTEAD OF TRY TO PLAY CATCH UP NEXT GENERATION WHEN GAMERS MINDS ARE ALREADY MADE UP ON X BOX AND PS3. I WOULD GO BAT TO BAT WITH MS/SONY FOR TECHNICAL SPECS NEXT GENERATION. I'D BEG SILICON KNIGHTS TO COME BACK EVEN IF WE HAD TO PAY UP. I'D GET ON THE PHONE WITH TAKE TWO AND BEG FOR MORE SUPPORT. I'D ASK CAPCOM TO CONTINUE RESIDENT EVIL EXCLUSIVITY NEXT GENERATION, IW OULDA BOUGHT SEGA AND MADE THEM GO THROUGH SOME SERIOUS REORGANIZATION AND MAKE SONIC A HOUSEHOLD NAME AGAIN, HAVE THEIR SPORT TITLES AND BRING THEM BACK TO MATTERING AGAIN. ALSO ALTHOUGH RARE HAS DONE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING SINCE THEY LEFT NINTENDO, I STILL WOULD HAVE KEPT THEM TOO. CONKER, PERFECT DARK, DONKEY KONG...HOW DO YOU GET RID OF THESE LONG TERM SUCCESSES? AT THE RATE NINTENDO IS GOING I WOULDENT BE SURPRISED IF THEY SOLD THE MARIO SERIES OR EVEN IF SHIGGY DEPARTED FOR SONY OR MS FOR THE RIGHT AMOUNT. WE NEED TO GET DONALD TRUMP IN CHARGE OF NINTENDO FOR A DAY SO HE CAN FIRE A BUNCH OF THE FOLKS MAKING DECISIONS IN REDMOND OR JAPAN. THIS IS WHY I BOUGHT AN X BOX TWO MONTHS AGO (LOVING NINJA GAIDEN) AND PLAN ON GETTING A PS2 AS WELL AS THE COMPETITIONS NEXT SYSTEMS AS WELL.. I AM A NINTENDO LOYALIST AND CONTINUE TO PLAN TO SUPPORT THEM BUT IM TIRED OF THEIR STUCK IN THE PAST MINDSETS AND THE WAY THEY'VE BECOME THE LAUGHING STOCK OF GAMING. IF NINTY LOOSES NEXT GENERATION WHICH UNFORTUNATELY I THINK THEY WILL I HAVE TO SUPPORT SONY AND/OR MICROSOFT NOT BECAUSE I WANT TO BUT IM A GAMER AND AS A GAMER I HAVE TO HAVE A BACKUP PLAN IF MY SYSTEM OF CHOICE FAILS. OF COURSE I COULD BE WRONG AND NINTENDO COULD BE WORKING SOME SERIOUS VOODOO BEHIND THE SCENES, BUT GIVEN THEIR PAST AND CONTINUOUS MISTAKES, I WONT GET MY HOPES UP....WAKE UP NINTENDO!!!

[ssjvegeto]

Well, Personally I do not believe Nintendo and Silicon Knights have split. If you want my reasons here they are. Reason 1. Since when does it take a couple of weeks to officially announce you lost a company. If I am correct when they sold Rare it was officially announced either that same day or after. Reason 2. Dyack has talked to good about Nintendo. A few days earlier he said he couldn't imagine SK not being a part of Nintendo. He said they would never split. Reason 3, I believe , like many others, that this is some kind of marketing strategy for ED 2. This is an insanity effect. It is working too. The reason why it will work is because when fans find out this is an insanity effect they will be like "Hey will still have SK" and they will want to rush out and get thier game, because they were afraid of losing them.

[Rob-GCA]

You expect people to read that? No offense, of course.

[Monkeylord]

*Threads merged*

[jedinitekw]

Well, I'm not fully ready to believe all of this (call it denial if you want) because something just doesn't feel right. First of all, since most people seem to think this was Nintendo's decision even though the article said they "mutually chose to part ways", I can't really see why this would be true. Nintendo absolutely knows that they need GOOD mature titles. Look at MGS:TTS.. much of the collaboration was due to Nintendo trying to seal the deal with Konami. And this brings me to my second point.. Konami said they were willing to port MGS to gamecube but didnt have the development team to do so. So Nintendo VOLUNTEERED Silicon Knights as a talented team to make the game. Let's think about this. Go back to elementary school for a minute. You're team captain of a kickball game. Your first pick is obviously going to be the best player.. right? What I'm getting at is that Nintendo KNOWS that SK is a very talented company and as Denis Dyack has said over and over again, they get along just fine. The only thing I can see that they would disagree over would be development time. This was a major issue with Rare. SK took 4 years to make Eternal Darkness (it started on the N64). Too Human has existed in some form since the PS1 days. Keep all this in mind and then look at MGS:TTS. Now, we don't know exactly when the game was started, but it could have used some more time. The graphics, although good, could have been made better *cough* textures *cough*. And the framerate issue.. I'm positive that as well was due to time constraints. The game was delayed once near its release, showing that SK didnt think it was quite ready. Whether it was Nintendo or Konami pushing SK to get the game out (and I'm pretty sure it wasn't Konami) I could have frustrated SK who obviously likes to polish and polish and polish their games.

[koten]

Originally posted by kellett03
we will have to wait e3 to see whats happining with s@k and too human
but in a couple of days the headlines will be "Mircosoft buys S@K"

Ok... now nintendo has been known to make some bad decisions in the past, but giving a powerful asset like SK to M$ is beyond even them. Trust me, SK wasn't bought by nintendo... I still doubt this is even true...

Ohh and XBE... What proof do you have this is true? 2 GENERAL GAMING SITES reported it, with a set of rather varied quotes... not to mention the two sites are known for posting false stories... As far as I can tell, SK hasn't done a thing, and if they have, it will have to be delt with. Nintendo would need a reason to do something like that, if it did, and i am not believing a thing UNTILL I read the official press release from Nintendo and SK themselves

[Matt]

Ideally, all developers would do games for all consoles. The more the merrier.

[koten]

Ideally my butt! If developers made games for ALL platforms that would result in but ONE platform, mainly because there would be NO reason AT ALL to have more than ONE platfrom because they would ALL have the SAME software, thuse resulting in a MAJOR monopoly and the distruction of the industry by escalating prices

[Link]

What is so great about Too Human, or SK in general, that is getting everybody so worked up? Are you afraid it's going to turn into another Rare? I just don't see the point in making such a big deal about this.

[blablamax]

Originally posted by ssjvegeto
Reason 3, I believe , like many others, that this is some kind of marketing strategy for ED 2. This is an insanity effect. It is working too. The reason why it will work is because when fans find out this is an insanity effect they will be like "Hey will still have SK" and they will want to rush out and get thier game, because they were afraid of losing them.

:yay:

I love it I love it I love it I love it I love it I love it

But I fear it is very hard to believe ... too far from been true. You can read that one from here sent a mail to NOA and they confirmed the news. Do you think they all cooperation to do kind of sansity effect on US? Mmmm soo hard to believe ... and the internet is full with this news...

Actually, the rumors about Rare and Nintendo started two months before the dropping, but the comment,I think,came from both companies in nearer days.

Mean while ... ... till the big-real confirmation, I may take your's idea ... :D Great advertising idea, thought :yay: :yay:

[Freak of Kane]

ResidentGCEvil - Hi, welcome. Please mind the caps.

I'm gonna eat my words here, but I'm beginning to become suspiscious about this whole split now - especially after reading other people's thoughts on the matter.

1. There is no press release. When something like this happens, a press release is issued either immediately or VERY soon after. We haven't got one yet. I doubt we'll get one on the weekend. Remember when some newspaper said there will be no more home consoles from Nintendo? They issued a press release and contacted all major gaming sites with a response practically immediately. When Rare left, the press release came very soon after and also Left Field's departure was issued with a press release.

2. The reason given. When you think about it *really*, Nintendo's and SK's game design philosophies are the same - at core. That's why the companies meshed so well together, no? So that reason can be seen as invalid, unless SK totally changed their ideas about gaming out of the blue.

3. IGN Cube. These guys are pretty friendly with Dyack. Dyack posts at their boards, too. Who's to say this isn't a little joke they thought up? Also, I don't think EVEN Nintendo would allow this kind of news to be first time released through an institution not belonging to them with "official" comments from the parties involved? This would have to come from the horses mouth to confirm it.

4. The rumours. This came totally out of the blue. I think Left Field's departure also came out of the blue, but they weren't as "big" as SK. There was a year's (or so) worth of rumours before Rare departed. There was nothing for SK.

5. Share price. I'm not sure if this is REALLY an issue or not, but after something of this nature happening, there is usually a rise or dip in Nintendo's share price - which is always reported - nothing has happened as of yet.

6. If this is all just a joke, I and a LOT of others got "PWNED MASELV" :sorry: Miguel!

I think the darkness is coming. Again.

[blablamax]

I like it to come;) .....By the way, did you finished ED yet ?

Mmmm.. the problem is, that not only IGN CUBE posted the news, but PS2/XBOX/PC IGN's aswell...while I think is weird to, that every site which reported about the news give a link to IGN which is the only source about the thing, while back then on Rare's days .. every site try to get her hand on the news first .. this time no one cheak what is behind this news ..... E3 will clear everything?

[Just Gabriel]

Originally posted by Freak of Kane

6. If this is all just a joke, I and a LOT of others got "PWNED MASELV" :sorry: Miguel!


Whaaa?
When did you "PWN" yourself? If anybody "PWN"s anybody from this whole incident, it would be Dyack and IGN, not yourselves...

And I can only hope it's a joke.

[Eric-AMN]

Nice post Freak of Kane, though I do disagree with your point on IGN.

I think that if (A HUGE IF) this is a stunt, having to be well thought out to make it work, the best way to ensure that the idea of SK leaving would remain in place until E3 would be to make sure that IGN, and Matt especially believed it.

Matt is probably SK's biggest fan on the net (regarding media types), he knows Denis Dyack very well, and trusts him even more no doubt. If IGN was in on any "stunt" I don't think that Matt could convey it properly and might let it slip that it isn't a stunt.

IMO the best way to make sure the stunt is foolproof would be to make Matt and IGN believe its all true. Because, IGN being the SK fanboys that they are, if they believed that SK was truly leaving Nintendo, we would have to believe it.

Of course, this whole PR thing is probably just bull, but hey, its fun to hope against fate. Still, all this thinking gives me a headache to be sure. :doh:

[Wh|tE gUy]

...you dont think a guy is capable of maintaining a lie via text? It's not like he is retarded or anything. Of course he can keep a secret when he is only quoted on what he writes

[koten]

^ factor unthought of! Dude! That is increadible! Dyack only talks to this guy through the message bourd or e-mail. Lies aren't that hard when you don't express emotion unless you go *GASP*

So if Dyack is being incredably cruel or using the most insaine promotion ever, Nintendo may see many more SK exclusives

[Eric-AMN]

I dunno if I missed what you guys are saying, but Matt C talks to Denis through phone conversations most of the time, and he definately said thats how he got the story in the article. Also, anyone calling Nintendo of America is getting a statement regarding SK leaving N.

Which is why if the "PR" theory is even remotely true, it would be better to lie to Matt and IGN than to tell him the truth. When you know something is a lie, one usually isn't able to keep that impression going for long. Especially when you're writing news articles every night (and no doubt, IGN will be getting many many questions about SK in their mailbag).

[koten]

crap... ok but i still feel it is impossible SK could be leaving without warning... It just doens't seem right. Why would they leave out of the blue... AND WHY WOULD HE TELL IGN? I mean he may be friends with the... but there is no logical reson for them to tell IGN without issuing an official press release, and that is my best defence. Untill I see a FREAKING PRESS RELEASE I ain't believing a word of it!

[blablamax]

Here is another point- CubeIGN didnt have 1 April fool's Joke .. Pocket IGN did, but Cube didnt .. maybe this is a late one... but as you say ,, NOA say this is true...

[koten]

Sorry for a double post, but the forums won't let me edit my post for some reason. Anyway, I had another thought

Why would Dyack tell IGN about such a major situation over a casual phone call? They would probably have been talking about MGS! I really don't see where this news would fit into a conversation like that.

(If i could get a mod to add this post to my last post it would be great)

[Ninty-cent]

The rqal reason everyone is *****ing is the fact that they were another original developer.... How many of you bought a GC for ED??? how many of you BOUGHT Eternal Darkness when it came out!!!? I got mine in the discount isle of Blockbuster 2 years ago, I don't regret it but SK never really advenrtised the game... They haven't sold enough copies and they're pulling out because they can't seem to meet their financial goals... We hurt on loosing SK because they held the hope of gaining an original highly promised mature title, but face the facts ppl it's been in developement forever and it was bound to be held out until they split from the contract to have a multi-platform release...

[Eric-AMN]

The statement from NoA is a hit against the "PR" theory, but it doesn't slap it down completely. If it is a stunt, then of course NoA would want to play it that way. However, then you have to wonder of the ramifications that Nintendo would face by giving out false information? How would this affect stocks? etc.

Of course, Nintendo stock is only traded in Japan, and without any official PR from Nintendo (with the usual comments from Iwata and Miyamoto), lends credence to either they're simply waiting, or it just aint true.

Most people seem to think that the official announcement will be made when Nintendo releases its financials. Which coincidentally (or not) is the same week (or after) as E3. Which means that this won't be settled for good until the expo, which could either mean, that its timed just right to be a PR stunt, or Nintendo let out the info early so as to not downplay their E3 showing.

It can go either way in my opinion. But I fully expect to hear that SK leaving is undeniable fact come E3.

[Spirit Icana]

Maybe IGN just played the entire "sanity effect" thing all by themselves. Nonetheless, this still seems very fishy. No press release, no stock holder responses, and no real word or confirmation of a split up is even known. Wasn't it Gamecube Advanced that played the entire Silicon Knights gone third party thing during last years April Fools? And why does IGN have a secret SK title listed on their "confirmed" E3 list under Nintendo. Many things can be speculated from this, but something still seems very fishy about the situation. Hopefully E3 will bring us our answers. By the way, I have to ask. Has Gamecube Advanced gotten a hold of either Denis Dyack or a Nintendo Representitive confirming if this break up is true?

[Phillip-AMN]

Hey fellas,

Just an update; we've published Sound Off: Silicon Knights & Nintendo. You can read that by clicking here (http://gcadvanced.com/article.php?artid=1637).

Once again, guys, thanks for all the excellent feedback. And keep your eyes open for our next Sound Off. :)

[Eric-AMN]

Just noticed a little blurb in Matt C's own IGN Profile, in the section where he lists his "Now Playing" Games:

Now Playing (04/10/04)

Rallisport Challenge 2

Metroid Prime -- in preperation for the sequel

Eternal Darkness -- and wondering why Nintendo let SK go

Serious Sam

While it doesn't lend either theory any credibility, it shows that Matt is very much in the dark regarding the details of what happened, yet he seems to believe that things aren't as "mutual" as Nintendo claimed.

[Idol Australian]

someone correct me, but when rare left, wasn't there press releases within 48 hours from the three compaines involved and it was all over the internet. this has only been reported on 1 website (with others echoing what was said) and no press releases from wither company. i know im grasping at strwas, but ill wait for the press releases.

[I'mSuperAwesome!]

yeah, how many games has Silicon Knights done For the Cube?

as far as i can tell, Silicon Knights is the Rare of the Cube, and

look at the crap that Xbox game after Rare left nintendo..

..what was it? dancin with Ghoulies or something...

[blablamax]

SK = Nintendo Gamecube's Rare?

Yah .. right, wakeup! it took for Rare 3 years. 3 years to develop one game!!!! ... they lost there tuch and you can see it on GBTG and on StarFox Adventures...

SK is a great developer and to say their name and Rare's one, well .. it's kind of hurting ;)

[Freak of Kane]

Just something else to add fuel to the fire for all you conspiracy theory junkies out there...

PlanetGameCube.com, the ONLY other site who say they have spoken to Dyack about this after the break-up announcement on IGN Cube posted this news at exactly 3:33 ;) Sure it's grasping for straws, but some can hope I guess. Go to http://www.planetgamecube.com and look at the news post under April 13th. It says "3:33pm" next to the news post. But then again, this could be just out of coincidence.

Credit to http://forums.n-philes.com

[Eric-AMN]

Whoah, thats something else. I mean, thats got to be one hell of a coincidence if it is in fact a coincidence. Of course, I suppose PGC could just as well have been using 3:33 because they were not pleased with what happened to SK, and 3:33 wasn't a good symbol in ED.

It all makes me just... :doh:

[I'mSuperAwesome!]

K I mean it in the sense that while they did make good games,

keep in mind that Eternal Darkness was in development since the

n64 era, and then they they pull this crap once they get to GC?

Silicon Knights is gonna pull a Rareware, its bound to happen.

[Kirbimirsha]

SK is bound to release some thin for a ninty console .... E3 anyone, hello ?
I'm sure everyone is getting steamed for nothing, besides what are the chances of SK being bought by some idiot named BILL GATES ?????? eh ???? This is a developer who needs space for creativity and THAT is why they severed their ties with ninty cos ninty probably wanted a kiddy game or somethin ( ps i'm only suggesting...).
Denis said to wait till E3.... and lets do that.

[Wh|tE gUy]

SK has yet to make a game that sells well this generation, they wont stay afloat on their own


*MERGE*

[blablamax]

Ok look on that:
PGC: NEWS: Silicon Knights Breaks with Nintendo 3:33 PM CST by: Jonathan Metts

GAMERFEED: Silicon Knights and Nintendo Split
By Mike Viscel -- Staff Writer
Published 3:33 PM CDT, April 13, 2004

I mean ... the time , 3:33 ..... is this coincidence ..? I doubt it. both sites, on the same time?

http://www.siliconknights.com/ >> no updated!

[blablamax]

*Spoiler?*

And the one of you who dont know .. well, 3:33 was the clock hour which the clock in ED is stuck in. And this is the code, to open Edward secret room ....


And by the way, ED is Nintendo's trademark ... which make me believe SK won't be able to make a port/remake or sequal to any other console out there in the market, except to Nintendo's.

[koten]

Hum... things seem to be getting more and more suspecios... I really am at a total loss on what to expect, The insanity effect theory seems to be becoming more and more plausable

[OutlawAdidas]

Also........here come more things, the news was made on April 13....33 days before the end of E3.

3 3 3 ....E3....no not E3 but ED

From all this info. I know that SK and Ninty didn't break up

[blablamax]

Totaly agree.

[blablamax]

I know! Can someone cheack on Bloomberg or somewhere about the precent of stocks Nintendo got in SK ... let's cheack if they are stil there...

[Freak of Kane]

Also note none of the big guns of the news world - CNN/Reuters have reported this. I'm pretty sure I remember them reporting the departure of Rare. I love these theories. I just hope I'm not too disappointed if it turns out to be true that Nintendo and SK (oops) have indeed split.

:banana:

[Eric-AMN]

I know that it was CNN that reported that Microsoft had brought out RARE.

[Freak of Kane]

Also, if the split is true...sales numbers can be looked at as a factor. ED, I can't really blame - it was a new franchise. I guess we'll have to wait for MGS numbers. I've heard the NPD numbers are out tomorrow, can anyone confirm this? I think the American sales will be the most important.

[blablamax]

Yes... nor did Bloomberg...

Ladys .. I think Nintendo's fans prove themselves as the cleverst

[Cooolcorey]

At first I thought that theory was really stupid, but with all this other stuff, it seems a little too...weird to be coincidental. I'm still not sure if I believe it (that they didn't split) though.

[koten]

I think this was some kind of puzzel! Maybe nintendo will offer us a huge prize for discovering that it was a hoax and really a promotion for ED2! Maybe we can all get FREE copies of ED2!

[andre]

extremely wishful thinking. what a sucky week for my computer to crash. i get the internet back yesterday and find this out! god-*******-damn. i can't even believe how ****ed up nintendo is! they take the most gifted and devoted developers and run them loose like console whores! if they develop for PC it won't be all that bad, but for xbox, i'll die. and what about Too Human?

[MoN]

It'd be hilarious if it's just a joke and SK ACTUALLY made Nintendo fanboys go insane ("insanity meter")...

EDIT: And if this is a joke, this is a wise marketing strategy. Look at all the Sony and Xbox fan sites who have reported this...exposer...

[koten]

Originally posted by andre
extremely wishful thinking. what a sucky week for my computer to crash. i get the internet back yesterday and find this out! god-*******-damn. i can't even believe how ****ed up nintendo is! they take the most gifted and devoted developers and run them loose like console whores! if they develop for PC it won't be all that bad, but for xbox, i'll die. and what about Too Human?

Dude... Did you look at all the things that are pointing to this being false or marketing? Dyack's good talking about nintendo, the 3s running rampant (as in 333 in Eternal Darkness), the meshing philosphies, and the multiple game deal that Konami and Nintendo made for MGS (in case you didn't know nintendo and Konami stated MGS wasn't a one game deal)

read over the forums, everything is there

[lilxleftee]

hmm, this really is some wishful thinking though.. yes it's coincedental, but i will remain stubborn like i am and go along the negative path.. for i won't be as disappointed if i discover that this departure really did occur.

[koten]

Yes you will, it doesn't matter, even if you expect the worst, the news will still be disapointing because it will still be true

[Spirit Icana]

Well, atleast we can still maintain hope. E3 just can't come any sooner.

[Freak of Kane]

OK...now I'm beginning to change my mind again. I think the split is true. Maybe SK/Nintendo are just working out the details - also, in a way there's less disappointment at E3 if we know prior that SK will have nothing to show.

Just a thought.

[Cooolcorey]

How many details is there to work out, I mean seriously. They released two games, and MGS is obviously cemented with Konami. That leaves ED, which is one game. It took Nintendo and Rare only a couple weeks to work out PD/Banjo/DK/whatever other franchises Rare had, and it was pretty easy to guess where they were gonna go anyway. It shouldn't take too long to figure out where one franchise should go which should belong to SK anyway.

But you might as well get into the mindset that they're gone, that way you won't be disappointed at E3 like you said.

[COTTON]

NOt only did Matt over at IGN in the mailbag prove that this is indeed true about SK, but more impotantly he mentioned somthing else. In another letter he mentioned Nintendo is going to show a 'Cubewars' game. That really sticks the finger up my nose. I mean, that sounds sooo cool if that's true.....

Does anybody else like the idea of a cubewars game?

[OutlawAdidas]

I'm still filing this is the "Rumor" section. For real, how do we know that he really asked Denis. I simply will not believe this until Nintendo.....not Denis or any other SK rep.. Confirms this in both pen ink and a signature in blood.......in the shape of the Nintendo logo

[lilxleftee]

wow, your sucha loyal nintendo fan.. but your also pretty damn biased..

how many times must you be informed? it's over between sk and nintendo.. get over it already.

[Freak of Kane]

Originally posted by OutlawAdidas
I'm still filing this is the "Rumor" section. For real, how do we know that he really asked Denis. I simply will not believe this until Nintendo.....not Denis or any other SK rep.. Confirms this in both pen ink and a signature in blood.......in the shape of the Nintendo logo I can only reiterate what lilxleftee said. You have to get over it. You wouldn't believe how much I myself denied the whole thing waiting for an "official" announcement when the whole Rare debacle happened. You might as well get used to it now.

Cooolcorey - I'm sure there are a lot of things to work out. How do you assume the Rare stuff was sorted out so quickly? Their split was in the making for near a year if not more. I'm sure they were in talks about the minor details well before the MS purchase.

[Kirbimirsha]

What's up with those rumors tho ? I'm not sure what is happening anymore cos now that ign said what they said we could be looking at a different situation....
And that thing...announcing the rumor as a hoax for the eventual prees release of ED2, what do you guys think of that, if its true of course cos i personally think its bullocks...

Hope there is some good news for us at E3 2004...

[blablamax]

Mmmm .. OutlawAdidas
, I dont believe IGN writer will fake statment's and saying of peoples.....

Mmm .. I think it pretty clear know that SK gone 3rd... ...

[koten]

I am still holding this in Rumors too... I haven't seen A DAMN PRESS RELEASE! Why is it so hard to understadn that this is ALL rumors until the PRESS RELEASE is issued. Not to mention that they can't up and decide to split. It takes months of paperwork, deciding who gets what, and the companies futures before a split can fully take place.

[thegamecubist]

Didn't some one on this thread already prove this when they got a e-mail from Nintendo about the split?

[Freak of Kane]

Originally posted by koten
I am still holding this in Rumors too... I haven't seen A DAMN PRESS RELEASE! Why is it so hard to understadn that this is ALL rumors until the PRESS RELEASE is issued. Not to mention that they can't up and decide to split. It takes months of paperwork, deciding who gets what, and the companies futures before a split can fully take place.

Unless this is their idea of a sick joke, I doubt it. Matt has confirmed this and the credibility that could be lost by himand Dyack could be pretty big. It's just like the Rogue Squadron series we hear about coming soon to Xbox - it's not confirmed but we more or less know it's coming.

The sooner we come to terms with this, the better.

[Spirit Icana]

Yes, and in a way I agree with you Freak of Kane. But how do we know that Matt or IGN isn't making this up. For all we know, they've got dibbs on Eternal Darkness 2 and decided to drive us insane with this. As for the Denis Dyack confirmation, he may have simply stated that a new game for Gamecube was on the way and therefore IGN decides to play a marketing ploy. Back when Eternal Darkness was first release, a little bit afterwards IGN threw a special column in hopes of persuading people to try Eternal Darkness out. How do we know they aren't doing it again? Is a Silicon Knights game still on IGN's confirmed E3 list? Anything's possible and like koten said " this is all rumors until the press release is issued." Of course I may be wrong, and therefore owe Matt and IGN an apology for my remarks. But I continue to remain suspicious until a press release is issued.

Edit: Silicon Knights game is no longer listed under IGN's confirmed E3 list.

[koten]

Originally posted by thegamecubist
Didn't some one on this thread already prove this when they got a e-mail from Nintendo about the split?

An email and a press release are two totally different things... For all they know it could have been a joker with a screename that would be similar to a nintendo one. I could do the same and send you an e-mail that says "Rare returns to Nintendo" but that wouldn't make it true.