The Tailzo Art School Thread

[Darc Requiem]

Well Tailzo, you said to start up a thread so I did. :thumbs up: I guess I shall pose the first query. What are your suggestions for drawing faces? I've always had difficult time with them. Also any suggestions on shading and perspective? Okay, I will leave some questions for DJ to ask now :D

[Tailzo]

Suggestions for drawing a face:
You need:
A normal piece of paper, a pencil and it is could to have an eraser.
- or -
digital drawing board, and two different layers in a drawing program. Use the bottom layer to draw the helping lines, and the top layer for the finishing touch.

These are old examples, but the best I could find that I had already uploaded while being at work. (I've got no scanner here.)
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/tailzo/1.jpg
Start with drawing a circle. In the middle of the circle, draw a curved horisontal line. It helps define where to place the eyes and the eyebrows. It also decides if the character is looking up or down. Place a curved vertical line that helps showing the middle of the face. It helps you decide where to put the nose. It also decides if the character is looking to the left or right, or is drawn from the front.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/tailzo/2.jpg
The shape of the face varies greatly, but use the circle as guidelines, changing it to slimmer or fatter. Also place the eyebrows sligthly above the middle line.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/tailzo/3.jpg
The eyes are placed in the middle of the line. Make sure to give the character a big enough space between the eyebrows and where the hair starts to grow. That kind of error is typical for inexperienced artists.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/tailzo/4.jpg
Try different solutions for noses, it differs greatly from style to style. Same for the mouth and eyes.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/tailzo/5.jpg
Remove the light pencil lines, leaving a clean drawing of a face. Self critism : I should have drawn both ears for an example, even if you wouldn't see much of the earn that is currently hidden by hair, you would see it slightly.

I'll leave shading and perspective for later. I can't find a lot of good examples at work. I'll look into it later.

[Tailzo]

Shading tips:

A while ago I quickly made a drawing of Sonic. I am used to his Genesis days, that's why he isn't looking all that modern. Anyway.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/tailzo/sonic-the-hedgehog-small.jpg
The main thing you need to remember is to decide where the light will come from. On this drawing, it comes from (our) left. For this kind of "cell shaded" shading, I usually use 3 different variation of one color if it's on a big surface, or two for smaller areaes. (see the example above.)

Sonics ear on (our) right gives a slight shadow on Sonic because it hinders the light. I haven't really been as precise as I could with this drawing, but I also hinted at the same with the nose.

The character will also cast a character behind / under him. I made a quick and cheap one, but as a general rule, it will cast away from the light, and on top of object. If Sonic had a wall behind him, his shadow would first go along the ground, then up the wall. Take a look at real life examples, if it's still confusing, I'll figure out some examples.

Perspective tips.

General tips, Anything further away will be smaller. Yes, it's a simple tip, but it's easier to forget than you would example. Let's take a look at this lovely bee:
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/tailzo/hnng.jpg

To give more depth to a drawing, that is one solution, but there's also other solutions. Remember 2d scrolling games? Some had foregrounds and backrounds. The games had overlapping objects. Some stuff were behind something else. It gives an illution of depth. For example here: http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/11796559/?qo=9&q=by%3Atailzo&qh=sort%3Atime+-in%3Ascraps The boat is tiny, but you still get the impression that the monster is further "in" the picture than the boat.

Another less known fact is that if you place a blue and a red color beside each other, it will appear as the red color is slightly nearer you. Therefore you should rather use red as a color in the foreground than blue. But you cannot always decide, still, it's good to know. I sometimes fade out the bg in more blueish coolors to make more depth. http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/947078/?qo=16&q=by%3Atailzo&qh=sort%3Atime+-in%3Ascraps

[MAX]

Great thread Tailzo!

[Z.E.I.D.A.N]

*learns*

[Darc Requiem]

My best friend was on me for the longest about getting a digital drawing board. I think I will have to pick up one this weekend. Anyone know a good brand to suggest, and what sort of price I should be paying for tablet?

[Miggy-AMN]

I'd hit on Tailzo if 1) He wasn't commited, and 2) I wasn't straight.

The hell, I'd do it anyway. <3

[rogue_gamecube]

My best friend was on me for the longest about getting a digital drawing board. I think I will have to pick up one this weekend. Anyone know a good brand to suggest, and what sort of price I should be paying for tablet?

Wacom's are about the only decent tablet maker out there, and from my experience, very much worth the money. However, they don't come cheap, I dropped around $100CDN for their smallest 6x9 tablet. I believe Tailzo uses the bigger model. The base models are Graphire's, then you go up to the Intuos line, then Cintiq's, etc. Graphire's a good model line to get to practice with and get used to using a tablet, and a lot of industry professionals still use them. The Intuos line are bigger and include some shortcut buttons, thereby making them much more money. Cintiq's are crazy expensive, and only recommended if you're really into tablets and got a couple grand sitting around doing nothing.

As for prices, given very little competition, Wacom keeps companies pretty controlled on prices. If you're into buying stuff online, tigerdirect is a good place to look, or newegg. However, look around locally, especially if you have some bulk Asian electronics outlet nearby. That's where I bought mine, decent price and lower than buying it online with the shipping costs included.

Be sure to post some of your stuff when you get going, tablet work is usually pretty cool :D. Myself, I lent mine to a friend who's quite better than me but not as monetarily supplied, so I haven't done anything in quite awhile. Oh wells :rolleyes:

--~

[Tailzo]

My best friend was on me for the longest about getting a digital drawing board. I think I will have to pick up one this weekend. Anyone know a good brand to suggest, and what sort of price I should be paying for tablet?

Listen to Rogue Gamecube. I use a wacom. It's actually a small one, and it only cost me 1000 NOK with Painter classic included. It's an A5 size. I'm not sure if people from the US uses that kind of measure.

Next lesson; Key difference between drawing a woman and a man:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/tailzo/kef-difference_0.png
Looks like two boys... or two women, right?

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/tailzo/kef-difference_1.png
Hey...

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/tailzo/kef-difference_2.png
When you draw a woman, think "soft". When you draw a man, think hard. Like in real life. usually. Gilrs have smaller mouth in manga style, bigger and softer eyes, smaller noses, and so on. I've marked with red some of the min differences.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/tailzo/kef-difference_3.png

[Darc Requiem]

Good stuff Tailzo, I hope DJ is benefiting form this as well. If I come up with some artwork that doesn't suck. I may post it.

[Tailzo]

Please do post up artwork. And it doesn't matter if you think it suck. Chances are it's better than you think. + How am I supposed to help you improve if I don't see your art?

[Darc Requiem]

Good point Tailzo, I will see what I can come up with.

[Darc Requiem]

I ordered my Wacom a few days back and it STILL hasn't gotten here. I may have to just go old school and draw something on paper and scan it. I was hoping to try out what Tailzo taught me on a tablet :(

[Darc Requiem]

I am going to have to go old school. No Wacom as of yet, thats what I get for going with free shipping option. Circuit City is based in Richmond,VA. I live about 20 minutes from Richmond. I figured I'd have my tablet by now. I'll post some art this weekend. BTW DJ have you sketched anything yet man? I was kind of hoping we'd both be filling this thread with our "masterpieces."

[Tailzo]

I also hoped we would see some Dj art here, but I haven't heard anything from him here or in pm. Don't worry about scanning stuff, as long as I can see what you've drawn, it's all good.

[Darc Requiem]

Sorry about the delay Tailzo. I had and still have some ISP issues at home. I did draw a sketch. I would have uploaded it sooner but I had a hard time getting it to scan well. In fact I had to trace over my pencil sketch in black ink. Oh and have to apologize to Rogue...twice. I sketched you first and it didn't come out as well as the others and I traced your sketch in black ink first as well. One of your eyes didn't come out to well because of it. I think my Miggy came out okay at least. You won't see me doing a happiness avatar thread anytime soon. ;)

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x33/darcrequiem/TailzoHomework1.jpg

[Tailzo]

Wow, yeah, Miggy is quite good. I have absolutely no problem seeing that it's him. The placement of eyes / nose / mouth, ect. seems to be quite good The main difference between your versions and mine, is the eyes. I tend to think that there is so many different (correct) ways to draw eyes, so if you didn't intend to have manga styled eyes, they're good. In terms of shaping the visage, I feel that your lines are a tiny bit "loose", but that can also be a matter of style.

Two things that I'd like to correct no matter style, is the girl eyes and some general flatness.(Rogue's hair for example.). The girl-eyes could be much more feminine. That is something I don't do very well either, but I'll make a few examples.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/tailzo/correction-girl.png
Corrections for the girl.

[Darc Requiem]

I will try my hand at the girl you just drew. Its gonna to take me a few attempts to get anywhere near what you've just sketched. Hopefully I can emulate the success I had with Miggy. I need to figure out how to use my tablet too, scanning is a pain. I don't like using pen and pencil doesn't like to show up.

Side note: See DJ, if I can embarrass myself you can to. Come on man. Don't leave me hanging. Every class needs more than one student.

[Darc Requiem]

Okay Tailzo here is what I came up with. It came out much better than the last one. You are a really good teacher :D

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x33/darcrequiem/TailzoHomework2.jpg

[Tailzo]

Not bad. One important thing that I have not discussed yet, is the importance of a facial expression. I can't really give you a solution to all expressions, as those are very different from artist to artist. I will however make you try to always decide an emotion for your character before starting to draw the face.

I tried to adapt myself to your style, and fix what I thought you could fix in your drawing + I added an expression:
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/tailzo/response_2.png


Oh, and yes, please join us, DJ.

Todays extra tip:
To find eventual errors in your drawing, mirror the drawing (in photoshop or whatever), then you'll often see things that doesn't look right, that would be hard to see normally.

[Rensa]

Hey, nice one, Darc. That looks heaps better already :D

[Tailzo]

Body - male
I'm not sure how to start this lesson, so I'll simply draw some help lines I use:
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/tailzo/body1.png
The size of the head depends on age. With of shoulders depends on masculinity, you can make someone gorilla-like with long arms and short legs, ect,
But I tried to make a fairly standard grown up:
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/tailzo/body2.png
Add some details
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/tailzo/body3.png
And some simple bg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/tailzo/body4.png

Try to draw your bodies as simple as possible. At first, do not bother with complex clothes, or details. Dra simple line that would easely show if one arm is too long, or if the legs are too short (for example.)

Hopefully you will be able to ask me more in details questions about drawing the human body. (I'm not a great example at that, but I can make it look ok in comic form.)
Whoops, no shadow coming from the tree. That's what I get for doing things in a hurry.

[Darc Requiem]

I'll try to find time to upload at work tomorrow. My net connection at home is still down. I have a tech coming to see what the issue is tomorrow. I was smart enough to bring my work laptop home, but I was stupid enough to leave the AC adapter behind. I will see what I can whip up body wise tonight though. I guess I'm the only one taking classes on this forum.

[Z.E.I.D.A.N]

Wow, you're actually teaching in here. Darc's making progress :P

[Rorshach]

I AM LEARNING AS WELL. THANK YOU, TAILZO.

No, seriously, thanks. I suck at drawing but I wanna become an artist, regardless. If I post some stuff, would you give me advice?

[Tailzo]

^
Yes, I'll do my best. Sometimes I might not make sense, as I have some trouble explaining things in english.

[Sean-AMN]

My best friend was on me for the longest about getting a digital drawing board. I think I will have to pick up one this weekend. Anyone know a good brand to suggest, and what sort of price I should be paying for tablet?

Wacom has refurbished tablets, I use one for storyboarding and my buddies at pixar and Lucas film started using tablet pc's

[Darc Requiem]

Sorry about the delay Tailzo. This one was harder than the others. It came okay. My character is pudgier than yours. I await your critique professor :D

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x33/darcrequiem/TailzoHomework3.jpg

[Darc Requiem]

Wacom has refurbished tablets, I use one for storyboarding and my buddies at pixar and Lucas film started using tablet pc's

Thanks Sean but I already have a Wacom. I just have to sit down and figure the thing out. Once I get my internet connection straight at home. I will start to pratice on it. I know my best friend wants me to draw with him on OC. Of course he is at hundred times better than me... I remember the good old days when he was only 3 time better than me :D

Edit: Here is a sketch of his, just to give you an idea of his talent level.

http://tn3-2.deviantart.com/fs9/300W/i/2006/035/d/f/Naja_sketch_by_Dalus.jpg

[Tailzo]

^
Dark, your friend is very talented.

Anyway, it seems like you don't have any big problems regarding bodies, atleast not simple people standing next to trees =) The sketch I made was mostly to see if you would have some wrong propotions. While you did have slight differences compared to mine, I didn't see it as wrong.

If we were to draw a more muscular and manly man, we would have bigger shoulders, and most likely clothes fitting to his personality. I'm not sure if I shoudl try and draw male bodies from different views, perhaps naked to see if you have any problems when it becomes more detailed?

If you feel you'd rather move on some simple female drawing, that is also an option. We could go abck to drawing males later. After that, we would ned to talk abotu some shadow work, as both our drawings (mine and yours) lack shadows, and it makes them kinda floaty (yours even more than mine.)

Tell me what you feel like learning, and remember to have fun. So far, I'm having fun, and I see you're doing great so far.

[Darc Requiem]

Yeah he is an exceptional artist. It was hard to find something of his to post though. I didn't want to break any forum rules haha. I'm trying to figure out what to do next. I may fiddle with perspective or try to draw one of my "original" characters.

[Tailzo]

^
Maybe the next step would be original characters, yeah. I'm excited to see your real style. As long as the style isn't 100% foreign to me, I should be able to help you anyway.

[Darc Requiem]

Here is one my characters. Took me a while to make this half decent. I didn't put a lot of detail in the clothing. I wanted your critique. Some of the lines didn't come out to well in the scan. Thankfully my internet connection at home has been fixed. Once I get a handle on the Wacom. I can skip the issues I'm having with scanning pencil sketched images.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x33/darcrequiem/TailzoHomework4.jpg

[Tailzo]

drawing women bodies is your weak point so far. But let's fix that! The best thing is to ask your woman to be a model for you (but you might want to keep those drawings for yourself). I remember I found an excellent site with lots of photos of women in tights. It was intended for anatomy drawing training, so no perverted stuff. I'll see if I can find it again.


It's good that you choose to draw your woman with as little clothing as possible, and I would even recommend you drawing them naked at first. Your first try here lacks a lot of feminine traits such as thin womanly arms, smaller shoulders than men, thin fingers and overall sense of being agile and light. (But I usually aslo think women should seem like they are soft, even if they are not fat.) You may have wanted to draw a woman not looking like a model, if so, don't listen to my critique =) Also, although big boobs is usually a positive thing, I'd try to draw them realistic at first.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/tailzo/femininity.png
I made a few lines as an example. Fingers are usually thinner thn mens fingers, are thinner arms, smaller shoulders, big hips (often a bit larger in with than shoulders), ect. I'm not an expert at drawing women, but I hope this helps while I search for the site I used to use for training.

Edit:
Don't be afraid to tell me if I make no sense, or if I sound too severe. I don't mean to sound very severe, I just want to make sure you don't keep bad habits as I've done myself. (It takes much training to fix that later.) And where is Hotlink / DJ Sinister?

[Darc Requiem]

Well the whole purpose of me creating this thread and posting my art here is to get your opinion and your suggestions. You won't offend me. I'm not a very good artist and you are a very good artist. I'm just grateful that you are willing to spend your time trying to help me. I'm kind of busy at work now, thankfully I have my own work space, but as soon as I get the chance. I'll try and improve my last picture. Its been a while and she did come out much thicker than I planned. I hadn't draw Mitsuri in at least a couple of years. Rust combined with lack of talent does not make for a good first attempt ;)

Edit: I would love to take your suggestion about having a friend model for me and then sketching her, but I'll have to think about it. I have to make sure there are no sharp objects present before I ask. My friend can be a bit on the volatile side. :D Hmmm....I wonder is Dalus* knows anyone.

*Dalus is my best friend. I posted his Naja sketch earlier in the thread.

[Darc Requiem]

Hey Tailzo, I still haven't figured out my Wacom but my personal scanner is much better than my work scanner. I redid the same drawing. I modified the pose slightly, changed the hair and I tried to apply your advice to the best of my ability. The pose I'm using isn't the best for showing off hips. I will have to use a different on next time. Anyway, I await your critique as always.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x33/darcrequiem/TailzoHomework5.jpg

[Darc Requiem]

Here is another drawing of mine. My lack of shading skills really hurt me on this one I think. Actually, I think what I was trying to draw is far beyond my current level really, but you can't get better without trying.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x33/darcrequiem/TailzoHomework6.jpg

[Tailzo]

Hey Tailzo, I still haven't figured out my Wacom but my personal scanner is much better than my work scanner. I redid the same drawing. I modified the pose slightly, changed the hair and I tried to apply your advice to the best of my ability. The pose I'm using isn't the best for showing off hips. I will have to use a different on next time. Anyway, I await your critique as always.

[image]


That helps a lot, she is much more feminine, and she has more womanly curves. You need to practice drawing hands later, though, but that is hard.

Your next drawing is actually very good, even though you don't seem to think so. It's an interesting pose, and with the exeption of the head being out of place and it works well. I find the bottom parts of the back and down from there to be very good, and realistic too.

[Darc Requiem]

Well yeah, I was completely satisfied with the second drawing and I fiddled around with somethings about it. Maybe I should have left it alone. Also any suggestions you can give on hands would be greatly appreciated.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x33/darcrequiem/TailzoHomework6b.jpg

[Tailzo]

^
Actually, the "shape" of your previous hand was better than your try right above. The one above seems flat, stiff, and too small. But the other didn't seem flat, not stiff, and around the correct size, just not detailed enough. You don't always have to draw all fingers to give people an impression of a completely drawn hand.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/tailzo/hand-help.png
From left to right:
My own hand, drawn while watching it. Good excercise. (My hand has tons of wrinkles, I used to let my skin in warm soap water for long when I was a kid, to tear apart the skin afterwards.)

A little help with your hand in the above drawing, it can be done as simple as this. The little finger will be shown to the viewer, with one or two of the other fingers slightly shown.

Then a hand drawn with some help lines.

[Rorshach]

She's Nekkid

[Darc Requiem]

Hey Tailzo, I made another sketch. This one is came out well by my standards. I know my hands still need work. I'm just happy about this particular drawing because I had an image in my head of what the pose should look like and it came out basically dead on. I'm sure the proportions aren't as good as my last sketch but I had a picture to go on with that one. This one was all free hand.

Edit: Just realize part of the foot got cut off :(

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x33/darcrequiem/TailzoHomework7.jpg

[Tailzo]

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/tailzo/help7.png
That's the kinda head-size I'd choose. Though it may differ from person to person.
+ the comments from my pm. Sorry, I'm a bit tired. May edit tomorrow morning.

[Darc Requiem]

Hey Tailzo don't apologize. You are helping me. You don't owe me any apology. Continuing the theme of one of your prior lessons. I freehanded this drawing using a picture as inspiration for the pose. It scanned this at work. So its not of the same quality as my home scans.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x33/darcrequiem/TailzoHomework8.jpg

[Tailzo]

^
Wow, very nice. From what I can see, her ass seems a bit weird, as the part facing us seems a bit smaller(?) than the other part of the ass. (I'm having trouble explaining this, as I don't know the correct words.) Other than that, the arms are feminine, the feet are ok (a teenie bit small, the smallest of the feet), and the hands are very nicely drawn. The face is still a bit flat / out of place, but I couldn't draw this much better without seeing the photo myself too. It's a hard position to draw. Actually, excluding the head, I wouldn't draw any of it better without having a photot to look at. Great work. You are improving much faster than I had thought, it makes me very happy.

Keep up the great work!

edit:
just saw that her arm that is touching her feet seems a bit long.(?)

[Darc Requiem]

Thanks for the compliments. I don't think I'm progressing as quickly as you think though. I do the see that the arm is too long. I'm gonna either have to do the whole drawing over or erase her arm and redraw it in a new position. Here something else I have been sketching. It has been a slow day today. I am really dissatisfied with how it came out but I'm through messing with it for now. I was really trying though. I did this one in honor of Miggy's favorite photo.

LOOK AT ME!!!
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x33/darcrequiem/TailzoHomework9.jpg
I'M AN ANTENNTION WHORE!!

[Tailzo]

You may be right, I don't know, but I was honestly impressed to see you draw such a difficult pose so well. Regarding your drawing above, the arms seems a bit short, but I should really look at the picture before saying that, as they are not "impossibly short". Also, you should make sure the shoulders aren't flat looking. I really like how you draw the feet.

I have noticed one thing lately though, You need to train drawing hair. Now the question is, do you like to draw it realistic, comic-style or manga-style? As you may expect, I know more about drawing manga hair than the two othes, but I will do my best to help. That will be my next tutorial.

[Darc Requiem]

Tailzo, don't get me wrong. On the split drawing, I was taken aback at how well I pulled it off. I just give my self less credit for drawing a pose with a picture as reference.

About my hair techinque, yeah I need help. I guess manga style would be the best to learn first. For two reasons, its seems to be easier than realistic and you've mentioned its your area of expertise.

As for the picture I based my last drawing on, Miggy practically posts it in any thread Coral starts :D Oh, about the arms. I had the same problem. In fact, if you could see the paper I sketched it on, you'd see that I had erased my original arms and redrew them longer. I think I was a bit nervous about giving yet another drawing "long arm syndrome";)

[Tailzo]

When you draw, it's usual a good idea to roughly draw very simple lines that show arm lenght, leg lenght, ect. before drawing the person as he / she would be in the end. That way, it's much easier to fix it.

About the hair, I'll try not to learn you stereotypical mangahair, but rather how to make sure hair is not flat, and how to make it look like it's hair only with simple lines.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/tailzo/hair-help01.png
1. When you draw a landscape, you can give it depth by drawing maybe a hill in the foreground that will be in front of some of the other backround elements. The same thing works with hair. (I don't know how to describe this very well.)

2. If a person has long hair, know where the hair "splits". And make sure the viewer understands it too.

3. Know where the hair will grow out of the front.

4. don't forget that some hair may be visible behind the ear.

5. If you have short hair, know where the top of the bald head would be. (Ok, you need to know this with long hair too, actually.) Never make it seem like the hair isn't following the shape of the head at all, unless you have long spikes. But the spikes shouldn't start further "down" than the hair shape would.

6. Not everyone has perfect hairstyles. You may want to draw some hair that is hanging down like that. Even if the rest of the hair is spikey. It wouldn't be unusual if not all the hair was straight up. Also, it gives some depth.

7. Hair behind the ears again.

I guess my avatar is a pretty good example?
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/tailzo/avatars/tailzo-new.png

[Miggy-AMN]

Haha, Darc's awesome.

[Darc Requiem]

Hey Tailzo here is my revised version of the "Attention Whore" pic. I tried to apply your tips on hair to it and I like the result much better. I also added some length to her arms. Overall I think it came out well :thumbs up:

LOOK AT ME!!!
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x33/darcrequiem/TailzoHomework9a.jpg
I'M AN ANTETTION WHORE!!!

[Tailzo]

That helped a lot, yeah. Since she has quite "a lot of hair" on her head, I'd try to give her hair even a bit more depth. I'll draw an example quickly asap.

edit:
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/tailzo/fix-hair.png

Even if some people have very striaght hair, it's not usually 100% straight.

Oh and if you didn't already guess it, I'm usually checking this thread between 3-5 times each day. I'm having a lot of fun.

[Darc Requiem]

I was REALLY hesitant to screw with this drawing. Probably why it took me so long to attempt correct its flaws. I have shortened the right arm and changed the right hands pose, I changed her hair, and slight increased the size of her right foot. I don't know about this one. You be the judge.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x33/darcrequiem/TailzoHomework8a.jpg

[Tailzo]

Hm... The hair isn't flat now, but it still looks unatural, only in another way. It gives a sense og being stiff, as it hasn't got any natural flow. But it does look a lot less flat, so it's better than before.

About the arm, it's better than that, but the hand isn't nearly as good. Let's see if I'm able to make an example.

edit:
I copied from your drawing, but made some subtle changes :
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/tailzo/fastfix.png

[Darc Requiem]

Okay Tailzo, Attention Whore...take 3

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x33/darcrequiem/TailzoHomework9b.jpg

[Tailzo]

^Yes, yes, better!
You have to amke the hair more fluffy, and less stiff. It doesn't always have to be curly to be fluffy either. When you've mastered to give the hair volume by being fluffy or curly, then I think we can move on to make it seem like hair, even with a "boring hairtype".

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/tailzo/fixy-hair.png

[Darc Requiem]

Hm... The hair isn't flat now, but it still looks unatural, only in another way. It gives a sense og being stiff, as it hasn't got any natural flow. But it does look a lot less flat, so it's better than before.

About the arm, it's better than that, but the hand isn't nearly as good. Let's see if I'm able to make an example.

edit:
I copied from your drawing, but made some subtle changes :
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/tailzo/fastfix.png

Could you give me tips for straighter hair? Mitsuri is supposed to have really straight hair. Its part of the reason I left it so nondescript in the first version of the drawing. Oh about the hand, so I should not show the pinky from that particular point of view?

[Tailzo]

Well, it must be lighter, and softer, sorta like the previous drawing I posted /bath girl), but less exagerated. Let's see. I'll draw an example really quick. wait a minute....

Remember:
1. The weight of hair
2. Flat hair will stick rather closely to the head, but still not coompletely glued
3. have some variations space between the lines you draw. Variations in thickness of the lines can also be good.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/tailzo/hairtips-straight.png

edit again:
I need to think more and see if there is other stuff I do to draw hair. Some things I do without thinking about it. Therefore, I may fail to explain myself at times.

[Darc Requiem]

Hey Tailzo, this is a very rough sketch of Chun-Li. I need to go to bed and I didn't really have to time to refine it the way I wanted. I promised that i'd post something though. I need to go to bed. One of these days, I'll get more than 4 or 5 hours of sleep....I hope.

Edit: Once again my home scanner works so much better than the crap HP I have at work. I guess I'll self critique. The right leg needs to be at a higher angle. I still made the head to small. Although the clothing lacks detail, the back cloth piece, don't know what its called, should be visibly hanging in between her thighs.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x33/darcrequiem/Chun-LiRoughSketch1.jpg

[Tailzo]

Yes, the clothing does look flat, and she has a general sense of stiffness to her. One thing I'd like to mention at once, is that I like your solution regarding the hands. When you draw hands that small, you don't need to define all fingers, and that is very common in manga styled drawings. What you opted for is nearly what I meant. MAke sure the overal shape is ok, and that it doesn't seem too flat, but keep it simple. I would however, define the fingers a bit more, but this is a step in the right direction. (IMO).

[Darc Requiem]

I'm completely unsatisfied with that drawing. I'm going to find a photo of a similar kick as a reference and just start the whole sketch over. As for my hands, thats how I draw them now before I fill in the detail. Its sort of guide to help me get the dimensions right. I started doing them that way on the "Attention Whore" drawing. It helps me with the finger positioning.

[Tailzo]

Just try to make it seem like she is leff stiff, that was the problem with it.

did you tro to draw more drawings of people with long hair, and not curly hair? I made you a quick drawing with some advices. Btw. Your new title makes me smile, and rpoud at the same time. Let me know when you're ready to try and draw your own avatar.

[Darc Requiem]

This is going to sound REALLY messed up Tailzo, but I can't draw my own avatar. Why? I cannot draw my hairstyle at all. I may just have to draw myself with an Afro until I can figure out a way to draw cornrows.

EDIT: This pic is over a year old, but I have really bad habit of not taking photos. It sort shows off one of my various hair configurations. BTW Yes, I do always look pissed off ;)
http://a267.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/00674/66/22/674932266_l.jpg

As for my hair aptitude, I'm still far better at curly hair than straight. I will whip up a few quick sketches on my lunch break to show you. Heck I may even start on Chun-Li if I have the time. Hmmm...maybe I should draw an Elena version of the Attention Whore sketch. I'm sure Miggy would get a kick out of it. I could use her sprite as a reference for that one. I may have to dust off SF3 Third Strike when I get home.

[Tailzo]

^
Could you post a high-res photo of yourself again? I'll see if I can figure out some tips to give you about drawing your hairstyle.

Please do post more hair sketches.

[Darc Requiem]

Well I don't have any high res photos on my laptop so I had to improvise. Excuse the scruffiness, I usually only shave when I go out haha. There were taken on my cell, so I don't know if they are high res enough. I need to hurry now. My lunch break just started and I have some sketching to do.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x33/darcrequiem/Image002.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x33/darcrequiem/Image004.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x33/darcrequiem/Image003.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x33/darcrequiem/Image001.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x33/darcrequiem/Image005.jpg

[Darc Requiem]

Sorry it took so long. Luckily no one bugged me for the last hour and a half. I didn't really focus to much on the faces. It was all about the hair, so please keep that in mind. The males hair style was a "mimic test" for me. I wanted to try a hairstyle that was in no way similar to anything you gave me as an example sketch. Well here goes nothing....

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x33/darcrequiem/TailzoHairSketchHomework.jpg

[Tailzo]

Nice to see you try some hairstyles of your own.

About your hairstyle, well, yeah, it's hard. I haven't been able to find a good solution, but I made a drawing that ended up looking a bit like an older you. Thiught you'd find it amusing to see.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/tailzo/sorry-dark-couldnt-find-solution.png

[Darc Requiem]

Hey its much better than what I could have come up with. I didn't aid you with the quality of the pics I posted.

[Tailzo]

^
No, the pics you posted were fine, I just tried quite a few tries to make something in a simple way, like in a comic style way. But I wasn't happy with the results. I haven't given up yet though =)

[Darc Requiem]

Here is a quick sketch of my main character on EQ2. I wanted to try and draw something without skintight clothing. I figured a sword welding psychopath in plate mail armor would do hehe.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x33/darcrequiem/Obsidia.jpg

[Tailzo]

quick comment, the head is a bit small. (I'm about to leave my computer, I can explain more later).

[Darc Requiem]

quick comment, the head is a bit small. (I'm about to leave my computer, I can explain more later).

Yeah that is a recurring problem I have with my art. I think because I have a such a big head, its given me some sort of complex. Now whenever I draw something, my characters have the "Super Mario Bros Movie Goomba effect."

[Darc Requiem]

Nice to see you try some hairstyles of your own.

About your hairstyle, well, yeah, it's hard. I haven't been able to find a good solution, but I made a drawing that ended up looking a bit like an older you. Thiught you'd find it amusing to see.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/tailzo/sorry-dark-couldnt-find-solution.png

Something about this pic struck a cord with me and I couldn't figure out what it was until now. Your sketch looks like my dad :thumbs up:

R.I.P Dad :(

[Tailzo]

I'm glad you liked my sketch. Hopefully it gave you a smile when you found out you thought it looked like your dad.

Regarding the head problem. I'm going to ask if you want to do an experiment. To do it easier to you to find out about the head-problem, you need to be able to dram more drawings. And focus on only getting the proportions right. For myself, it can help to draw as simple as this:
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/tailzo/simple.png
Would you like to try? If it is boring, feel free to skip it, but if you do, I'll gladly offer you advice even if it's stick-men. Also, Usually, when you draw models, the head can fit in around 9 times (sometimes more) in the body-lenght stacked up vertically. I don't use that method, but some people do. The bodies I draw often have heads bigger than that.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/tailzo/bodies-heads.png

[Darc Requiem]

I'm gonna redraw my last sketch from scratch when I get the chance. I've been bogged down at work today. I've barely had any time to do my usual forum posting today. I need more free time :D

[Tailzo]

What do you think about both of us posting our daily sketches? Would you be more inspired to see more of what I'm drawing? I remember I was extremely hyped about drawing when I was 14 and every day I would show my drawings to a friend who was also drawing. Just a suggestion.

This was today's sletch, I focused on drawing pissed of men. I'm drawing way too many happyfaces.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/tailzo/tailzo_daily-sketch_02_07_07.png

This was made a few days ago in paint:
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/tailzo/greatest-sonic.gif

I don't always save what I draw, but if you want, I'll save everything from now on. It doesn't hurt if you ask me to draw spesific sketches. If you need to have some inspiration. Also, would a "daily sketches thread" be a good idea?

[Darc Requiem]

I think a daily sketches thread would be pretty cool actually. Although, I wouldn't expect much from me on Friday or Saturday.

[Tailzo]

If someone else actually reads this thread; who would like to participate in this and a future "daily" sketches thread? I know we have more artists at AMN, come one! Mike, where are you?

[Darc Requiem]

Hey Tailzo, I redrew my EQ2 character. The actually drawing is much larger than the prior one. Her head should be in better proportion now.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x33/darcrequiem/Obsidia2.jpg

[Tailzo]

That's a much better head. I doo feel the forehead is kind small, the eyes are placed a bit high. Please take a look at my guide for drawing heads. (I can't draw a drawing to help you out now, as I'm at work.) The next step might be to help you define clothes better, and make it look like she's wearing normal clothing. I'm not an expert on that field, but I still think I could help you out with that too, as long as you don't mind my style.

[John35]

Wow. I can definitely see the progression in Darc's drawings. Nice job Tailzo.

[Tailzo]

You should join us! Dark is working hard, and he deserves the praise. If you join, I'll promise to do my best to help you too!

[Darc Requiem]

That's a much better head. I doo feel the forehead is kind small, the eyes are placed a bit high. Please take a look at my guide for drawing heads. (I can't draw a drawing to help you out now, as I'm at work.) The next step might be to help you define clothes better, and make it look like she's wearing normal clothing. I'm not an expert on that field, but I still think I could help you out with that too, as long as you don't mind my style.

Yeah, you don't know how hard I had to fight the urge to make her head smaller. :D Also I don't mind your style. I had basically given up drawing on a consistent basis for 10 years. You've gotten me to draw more in the last couple weeks than I have in a long time. So you won't see me turning down any help you can give me. Also, i will draw my guidlines lower on my faces in the future, now that you mention I can see what you are saying about my small foreheads.

[Darc Requiem]

Wow. I can definitely see the progression in Darc's drawings. Nice job Tailzo.

Woo hoo, DJ is here. :w00t: :banana: :yay: Glad to see you here man, I was starting to wonder if I was going to be the only student in this thread. Hey Tailzo, maybe you can get Sean to be your teaching assistant. I hadn't realized how talented he was until I saw his thread.

[Tailzo]

Sean could teach me a thing or two =) I haven't really tried to draw any Disney stuff, except for a few Donald drawings as a kid, I'm sure his methods are very different from mine.

Yes, DJ, please join us, I'd love to see your style evolve too! If you don't like my style, I promise I will not force you to draw like me =) I try to let people draw in their own way, as long as nothing seems to be wrong with the drawing.

for later use, from the happiness thread:
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/tailzo/dark-nappy.png
What I wanted to say was:
1. Your expression. In the photo you look calm, maybe even a little tired. In your drawing, you're kinda shocked. (I'll make a tutorial on facial expressions later.)
2. The shape of your head, your head was too "stretched".
3. You did your beard very well, you also found a good solution to drawing your hair.

Feel free to ask me more.

[Tailzo]

In response to napiness 2.0^
The shape of your head is much better than your first effort. I'm a bit unsure about your expression, though You had a very neutral experssion in the photo too. One thing we shoudl try to better, is to have more depth to the face. Your nose has depth, your lips has depth. But the general shape of your head seems to be flat. A general tip to avoid this, is to always let your lines follow the natural shape of your head. I'll give you a quick example.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/tailzo/roundness-example.png

Though, offcourse, your head isn't shaped like a ballong. But your eyebrows, they are usually indicative of the shape of your head. As where your hair srats / stops to grow also helps to give a better impression of "3d". I hope this made sense.

[Karna]

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c217/Karnanrak/karna_27_07_07.png

[virion]

ok.. here's my first attempt tailzo.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f199/virion9/scan0001.jpg

for reference..

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/tailzo/correction-girl.png

some of the faults i see.. the face is too wide. and the eyes are terrible. any thoughts?

[HGW XX/7]

I'm pretty sure a 2 year old thread revival = necromancy. Perhaps this thread just needs a relaunch, as I'm down with the daily sketch idea...

[virion]

new sketch attempt.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f199/virion9/scan0002.jpg

[Tailzo]

ok.. here's my first attempt tailzo.

[img]http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f199/virion9/san0001.jpg[img]

for reference..

[img]http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/tailzo/corection-girl.png[img]

some of the faults i see.. the face is too wide. and the eyes are terrible. any thoughts?

Eyes, eybrows, hair all look good individully, but when they're togheter as a face, it looks a bit off. Did you base the face on a circle to make it easier? I think you should :D

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/tailzo/1-1.png

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/tailzo/2-1.png

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/tailzo/3-1.png

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/tailzo/4-1.png

[HGW XX/7]

I've never been able to draw anything remotely decent when I try using guiding lines and rough outlines. Ugh, they frustrate me.

[virion]

^ i hate having to erase the lines.. but i find that it has been helping.

tailzo, thanks for your advice... i really appreciate it.

[virion]

rise from persona 4.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f199/virion9/scan0001-1.jpg

here's the original.. i need to practice alot more..

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_RRlwKmtFE-4/SWGmgqn5EtI/AAAAAAAAAF4/kui-rCXwLic/s320/Rise+Kujikawa+3.jpg

[Tailzo]

rise from persona 4.

[img]http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f199/virion9/scan0001-1.jpg[/mg]

here's the original.. i need to practice alot more..

[img]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_RRlwKmtFE-4/SWGmgqn5EtI/AAAAAAAAAF4/kui-rCXwLic/s320/Rise+Kujikawa+3.jpg[/ig]

I like how you've focused on the lightning / shading. Only big gripe about the drawing is the shape of her head / chin. But you'll get the hang of it soon enough :)